EllisG

not really interested on how much a government and it's associated bureaucracy wastes per person on health since for 200 euros a year + 100/month I can cover my health in the private sector (as I did last year to treat cancer even though I was still paying into their state system). Maternity leave is not something I am going to be taking without serious changes in the laws of nature. I do not hold out much hope for seeing a Spanish pension.Therefore I believe my 260 euros a month easily covers insuring the risk not forgetting I would happily contribute to their charity cases with an income over a certain level

when drawing my attention to the advantages of social welfare please bear in mind the last time I voted Maggie was carrying on her reign in England and I have not seen anyone since who I come close to agree with (besides UKIP..but that's a different story again)

cricketman

Social security is not an optional payment. You do not have to agree with it. If you dont pay at and only work on the black then you are a common thief as bad as anyone else, be careful someone doesnt report you!

As for those who say everyone works on the black in Spain. Well, obviously not, otherwise the government would have zero receipts from taxes!

My Catalan friend came to visit us in Andalucia a few months ago, he couldnt believe that you actually have the choice to not pay IVA for some services here. He said he's never heard of that in Catalunya

EllisG

Please don't give me the inclination to believe I am conversing with a ignorant ranter who does not possess the ability to comprehend basic information without drawing a wrong conclusion in order to find an excuse to make irrelevant points which are not connected to the point being made here about the fairness of the social security payments which I DO MAKE despite this current time proving to be far less fruitful than previous years.

please do report me (full contact info available on request) perhaps it will prompt them to call the people who deal with IVA to send me the refund they owe me and maybe even someone will question why it is right that I appear to be shelling out up to 40% of this year's income paying and accounting to them for social security

Stick to the topic cricket, we're on about fairness in the social security system not whether or not some dodgy plumber will fix a leak for cash

snikpoh

What about those of us who WANT to pay SS but can't????

• We don't work
• We aren't employed
• We are below pension age
• Hacienda will not allow us to go autonomo because our 'business' is not acceptable to them (rent out a couple of flats)!

How STUPID is the system in Spain that will not cover children for basic health care! .....and don't quote "ley del menores" because the authorities claim it doesn't apply to us!!

If there's anyone associated with the press on this forum, please call as I feel I want to go public with this farce!

Mitzyboy

I was regrettably one of those that was shelling out 40% + in taxes whilst working in the UK. However, I'm making an assumption that I was earning considerably more then you are .... so I have to agree in many ways that it is tremendously unfair for the scales to be set here so high for those that are on average or lower pay.

EllisG

I was on higher rate tax too, but do not forget this only reflects 40% of your income over a certain level and probably included only 10% approx national insurance, my 40% is purely national insurance/SS..I do not have an issue regarding tax on money earned and contributing to society there is a distinct difference between that and the subject at hand

my current income level reflects the fact I am doing sod all except enjoy beach life at the moment and the one off deals are thin on the ground. So living off savings I just feel I am being taxed twice on money earned in past years.

cricketman

Well in your case, you've essentially opted out of the system in the eyes of the authorities i.e. you dont work and are not looking for work, you have savings/income and you are under pensionable age

So you are meant to pay for your own health insurance needs. When your savings/income runs out then you can apply for help due to being "destitute" or you can start looking for a job

They are hopefully changing the law over the next few months, but with elections coming who knows. This issue ran on the front page of El Pais a few months ago. They said there are around 200,000 people in Spain who have no health insurance and no prospects of getting it, meaning currently 99.5% of people in Spain get health cover in one way or another

snikpoh

Unfortunately, I can't work but my wife is currently looking - again, no help for her what so ever! She currently works in an animal charity shop until she finds something.

The original idea was that our 'business' would be to rent out the properties we own. However, with the crisis, the rental market has gone very dead in this area. Some of those that do rent, stop paying after the first month

Even when you claim to be 'destitute' as you call it (earn less than 1800 euros/month), they still make it impossible to get help - and I know from experience.

I have enquired about private health cover but for a family of 5 it's VERY expensive (even in Spain) and I don't see how we could afford it for long.

JLFS

What a good idea, go to the SS and declare yourself destitute, take along your passports, NIE number, bank account, Sip card, birth certificates, death certificates, rental agreement, deeds, work and SSpayment record.

Get there early to make sure you get a number to be seen, plonk you paper work down on the desk.

The funqui behind the desk, will look at the paperwork you provide........

NEXT

evamar

A friend of mine (Spanish) was quite fed up with that, particularly after having an accident as Autónomos are not paid for the days they cannot work. He was out of work for some 3 months and still has to be careful with his health, so no more 14 hours days.

He is going to create a Sociedad de Responsabilidad Limitada with his partner as he doesn't want a Unipersonal one, and get paid as employed under the Seguridad Social system. I think he said that the minimum social capital was 3K euros or so. He will be working like that for the next 12 months to check if the business is really viable as the crisis has badly affected him, and will keep that term to make sure that he can ask for unemployment help if the business is not good enough in the long term.

Although in Spain there is a lot more red tape to create a business than in the UK (starting with no access to the registered names so one has to fill in and pay for a form with only 3 name options and risk that they are already taken) this might be something I would be looking at when I go back, as I find the self employed system quite terrible.

Basically, they assume that most self employed people lie when declaring their earnings and work in black, so the conditions are covering for the people who do that and are not thought for the honest ones.

Pretty unfair, I totally agree.

evamar

uuuffffff... I know Spanish families who are supporting 6 people with a salary under 1,000!!! They actually depend on Caritas for food. We'll see what happens when that last job is also lost. Unfortunately many people would love to be "mileuristas" nowadays.

JnK

It's true, I usually get money back at the around June/July but it doesn't help to pay out the money in the first place when your income isn't really very high. Must be a better way of encouraging entrepreneurs and autonomos working legally. I'm still getting over the shock of my bill this month... going to lie down now.

jackytoo

This unfairness could be the reason why Spain lost over 160,000 autonomos in August.

cricketman

Well the unfairness has always been there, but you are right if it was linked to income then autonomos wouldnt have to sign off after the summer season

Btw, I know times are hard and are only going to get worse over the next few years, anything that can promote economic activity has to be a good thing. I wouldnt hold your breath though.

The PP will most probably be getting in power next month despite not having aired a single policy on how they would solve the economic and unemployment problems. Well actually they have, they want to privatise more state services which will only be bad news imo, especially since I'm sure it will be their friends and family winning the work contracts

jackytoo

Yes I read something about them not having revealed their policy. Correct me if I am wrong but was it the PP who stopped the sale of the lottery and Airport authorities?