Chipmonk

If its nonsense where is the publish documents saying that residents will be treated differently. If that was the case then TIEs would be compulsory as they contain biometric data which would bd scanned. Green cards are just a piece of paper.

bolton wanderer

I suspect that the only reason that British non- EU residents will get their passports wet stamped is due to the Schengen computer system (SIS) being unable to monitor every UK traveller through every possible EU border. If the system was working as the EU wanted then there would be no need to wet stamp passports as any infractions would alert the border control when the passport was scanned.

So, If you can't produce proof the you're resident in the EU (residence card) then the default position will be to wet stamp your passport on entry & exit to the schengen area.

EuroTrash

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info...nal_public.pdf

"Stamping of passports upon entry and exit (Article 11 SBC) (not applicable to documented Withdrawal Agreement beneficiaries)"

EuroTrash

I imagine the wet stamp is also so that there can be no confusion over how many days the passport holder has spent in Schengen. That way passport holder has a permanent record of all their entries and exits, in case they misremember, and it avoids arguments at the border if a traveller is convinced the border agency's records are wrong.

bobd22

The green card may well just be a bit of paper but a bit of paper which proves ones legal right to residency in Spain. It may not be biometric for scanning but does have on it an issue date? So officials immigration police or whatever can visually check your card without needing the biometric data, that's what Spanish government have said is acceptable by saying exchanging for TIE is not compulsory to date.

Notdunroamin

So you turn up in Spain as a tourist, overstay the allotted 90 days, then when the police catch you, (many ways to come to their attention) you just stick up two fingers and say "sod off you can't deport me".

You think,really?

Moses2013

The argument was Brits who are already living in Spain and don't meet income requirements. If a Brit enters Spain today permanently it's not illegal, so they can't be deported. It's the same in Mallorca and there are plenty of homeless Germans who don't meet the income requirements but it's tolerated. If you are a tourist then you are a tourist and depending on your country of origin will probably be deported. That would be considered a serious offence. Any lawyer would happily take the case if a person with the right of free movement today who made Spain their main point of interest is deported because they don't meet an income requirement. The UK would rather pay the 50€ to the person so they stay in Spain. Bringing them back would cost far more, be it housing, welfare and higher health costs. This is also an interesting point in the UK: https://ukandeu.ac.uk/deportation-and-reconnection-of-homeless-eu-nationals-in-the-uk/
Further, it is broadly accepted that there will be people who will miss the deadline for various reasons – no such scheme has ever reached 100% application. The Government has promised that for those who miss the deadline for EUSS there will be no automatic deportation, as suggested previously by Brandon Lewis.

However, there is a real risk that those who do find themselves without status will face a particularly hostile environment in terms of access to housing, support and health services and could potentially end up destitute or homeless.

EsuriJohn

I noted when I passed through Faro airport, the nearest one for us in the far south west of Spain, the fast track machines have a slot for ID CARDS which can be used by citizens of the EU when entering Schengen. The TIE card with chip would fit the slot nicely I shall see if it works in January. My wife is an EU citizen and I understand I can tag along with her in her queue if we approach the border control officer.

Nand

We have moved between european countries for 10 years and never once stopped at a boarder. When traveling to and from the Uk and Morocco, we were checked for our passports only and they put a stamp on them. So we have no stamps in our passports referencing going from eu country to eu country. How would anyone know if someone is legal or not between eu countries? or for that, even entering the UK or Morocco. We drive, so we don't fly or use the trains maybe that is significant, idk.

I'm not shocked if thousands of people manage to live in europe without papers, what harm is there in it? When I lived in Rome for uni it seemed pretty normal, that was in the early 90's.

Fred James

Because they don't pay the taxes that they should be paying. That's what really upsets legal residents.

I hope they all get dragged out kicking and screaming and deported.

Nand

Fred James I thought this discussion is about people who can't meet the financial requirements for residency, those people wouldn't make enough money to be taxed as they don't meet those requirements anyway. So what is the problem?

bobd22

Because many who have ignored the residency requirement in the past are not necessarily short of income some just don't wish to comply and pay Spanish tax. As for the years of travelling between EU countries including the UK reason you only had to show your passport without needing a stamp was because like the rest of the EU UK citizens benefitted from EU Freedom of Movement which stops after 31 December.

Fred James

All of the people I have met who live here without residency have freely admitted that they havent applied as they don't want to pay income tax or declare their assets.

EuroTrash

I suppose it's basically the same problem you get in most countries that attract immigrants.. Those who live there and pay their taxes there, sometimes feel resentful of supporting those who live there and don't share the burden,. And especially, they don't like it when they feel their tax money is going to support immigrants who have never put anything in to the country but are taking out. Rightly or wrongly that is how taxpayers often feel, and that's one of the reasons why immigration is such a difficult issue.
I doubt it because freedom of movement is not and never was an unconditional right. Freedom of movement was always conditional on meeting certain conditions and not becoming a burden on the country they moved to. A person who moved to Spain when they were unable to meet conditions set out in the FoM directive, was not correctly exercising FoM and therefore, has no entitlements and cannot claim any rights. Many countries have tolerated EU incomers living below the radar but there is a difference between being tolerated, and having rights.

Pulaski

This would "work" for continuing to live in Spain while travelling overland to the UK (outside of Spain) but only so long as the Schengen perimeter passport computers aren't hooked up, because you could travel overland to the UK across France without having your passport checked, and then across the Channel, and the French would let you back in on the way "home" to Spain because the French can't tell how long you had previously been in the Schengen area. But when the Schengen perimeter passport computers are connected between countries then on returning to France after visting the UK, your record will show that you had previously spent more than 90 day's within the Schengen area (because you were living in Spain), though the French authorities couldn't automatically tell that you had been in Spain, because of open borders within the Schengen area.