spainrico

The Guardian reports that UK government urging EU to ensure can legally live on

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...droidApp_Gmail

It makes the point some people have still not taken all the appropriate actions to secure their rights so maybe we all need to help any friends/relatives living in Spain who have not got their residencia, exchanged driving licenses etc.

Notdunroamin

Quoting from the article:

"some of whom may not like to approach officials because they don’t know or fear how it might impact on things like taxation, health care,”

I'm sorry but if those are real concerns or reasons for not engaging with Spanish authorities then it can only mean that the individuals involved know full well that they have been living here illegally and deserve to fall foul of the Brexit 'dividend'

I'd be willing to wager that some even voted for it!

Lynn R

Absolutely right. The people I know who have still not registered as residents have done so deliberately, either to evade paying Spanish tax or to keep returning to the UK for NHS treatment (yes, I know pensioners can do so legally but these are not pensioners). I could not help them, as spainrico suggests, even if I wanted to.

bobd22

Imagine how the taking back control brigade in UK would deal with an immigrant to the UK using that excuse? Reality is for many British Expats playing the being under the radar game suited them plus unfortunately very few got found out. Now of course as time runs out as Brexit proper gets ever closer they now seem to think they should be sympathetically treated. The rules are what they are one either complies or if not and found out tough as there is no acceptable excuse. It's not difficult to be legal in Spain and it shouldn't be a choice either.

missile

I know of one couple who have lived in Spain for nearly 20 years claiming free medication from UK until the Doctor caught them out.

I know another couple who are both claiming disability benefit for 20+ years.

spouse of scouse

Is the disability benefit paid by the UK government? If so they're probably correctly receiving it despite living in Spain, many UK disability benefits are 'portable', ie DLA care component, PIP living component and Attendance Allowance or Carer's Allowance.

bobd22

Surely if people are entitled to claim whatever benefits that they do or are entitled to healthcare paid for by the UK due to disability, pension or being on certain benefits then there is and will not have been any deterent to being fully legal and resident in Spain? Some benefits are legal to be out of the country but not full time I believe. So if that applies to people who correctly split time between Spain and UK that's within rules and fine. However after 1 Jan the Shengen rules will affect the length of time and frequency of visits. Reality is there are many people have known the residency rules and totally ignored them for years along with abusing UK health care. Why should such people now think they deserve to be treated as a special case? Not those covered legally by a benefit or disability.

missile

I have no idea whether their benefit is legitimate or not. Not really an issue for me, but might be for them post Brexit?

bolton wanderer

To be fair not everyone who is concerned about the impact of Brexit is/has been living here illegally. The rules since 2012 are quite clear, if you're visiting spain for longer than 90 days then you must register as a spanish resident and, AFAIK, if you're staying for longer than 183 days in any 12 month period then you become tax resident.

We've obeyed the rules and enjoyed visiting Spain for holidays as UK residents, with our primary residence in the UK. However, now that we've taken early retirement, we would like to stay longer than 90 days in the winter period but still stay within the rules to remain UK resident. As I understand it we must now register as Spanish residents and we must spend less than 183 days in spain. My concern is how I prove to the Spanish tax authorities that we don't exceed the 182 day limit. We could sign off the padron when we leave and it would be useful if our passports were stamped on entry & exit..... It all seems a bit up in the air at the moment and no one knows what will happen after 01/01/2021.

bobd22

I think what you mention is an unknown. Main problem will be the shengen 90 day rule max in any 180 days. It would seem you would breach that straight away but not something I'm up on or know how that is / will be monitored. Certainly to help prove not resident I would not sign on the padron as that is for your habitual residence which you wish to say is UK. I know many say that's wrong and you should be on the padron but personally if holiday home I wouldn't sign on it. If you do you could make it difficult to prove Spain isn't your habitual home. I would also keep detailed records of travel etc and of course details of anything else that may help prove you were out of Spain. Also I would bear in mind that now it's a TIE card for residency over 3 months showing your rights under the withdrawal agreement while resident in Spain. Technically I think if you left Spain after Jan 2021 other than short break holiday then you lose the rights and should re apply on return under 3rd country status? Not sure but well worth researching that? It all depends how the system is monitored but I guess to stay fully legal doing what you propose wont really be possible .

Fred James

The rules say that although you will not need a visa to enter Spain, passports will be stamped on entry (into the Shengen area) and on exit, so it will not be possible to overstay the 90 days or re-enter before the 180 days expire.

This has not happened in the past which is why people could get away with staying as long as they liked.

Whether it will be enforced remains to be seen but if you get caught overstaying then technically you are an illegal immigrant and that could preclude future visits.

Interesting times ahead for non residents.

bobd22

I had wondered about passport stamping but wasn't sure. Yes interesting times ahead Fred as you say.

bolton wanderer

Indeed! .....Shengen visas and ETIAS, confusing times ahead.
Although, as I understand it, UK citizens (passport holders) need not apply for a schengen visa for a short stay under 90 days. (which implies that passports will be stamped/monitored) This will probably last until ETIAS is implemented in 2022. (https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news...ct-uk-citizens).

We're trying to do the right thing and hope that Spain will eventually offer some sort of long stay visa for foreigners with sufficient resources to fund their stay. In the meantime, in order to be legal, we'll apply for residencia (padron required) for our stay this winter. Hopefully, the British government will reciprocate the initiatives put forward by Spain but I'm not holding my breath....interesting times.

spainrico

Yes, I agree it is way over time that the deliberate scammers were made to go into the system including the Brits who have been driving illegal uninsured cars as well as those scamming the tax system etc.

Lisa Evans

The latest updates regarding the freedom of movement of European and British citizens after Brexit are very clear.
British citizens will need to apply for an ETIAS travel authorization to visit countries in the Schengen area.
On the other hand, European citizens must apply for the so-called US-style visa waiver if they wish to visit the United Kingdom for stays of no more than 90 days.
In the case of ETIAS it will enter into force at the end of 2022 and in the case of the UK travel authorization it is estimated that in 2025. Reciprocity in the norm after Brexit.