metalmike

Well what do you make of this one? The Daily Express is getting steam up on this mission and it makes interesting reading, so here is the link:
www.express.co.uk/web/europecrusade

Just one request please to the old guard of the forum, don't shoot the messenger, I don't have any opinion either way, and I didn't write it.

Rotor

BANG

I dont think it will happen in our life times , if it did expats may loose the right to residencyhouse values would go down even more

metalmike

I am sure you are correct Rotor, but it may ruffle the feathers of the complacent MP's who think that a seat in Brussels is a natural progression from Westminster. As for house prices, they are going to level anyway in the UK and certainly here in Spain in the next 12 months, irrespective of who is in or out of the EU. I have never been a negative individual but all the signs from the experts in our field of business predict "that we aint seen nothing yet"

jackytoo

Values go down! Not neccessarily. There was a lot of British buying homes on the CDS before Spain entered Europe. Would complicate the right to work though.

I am for getting out

Rotor

Also healthcare , schooling ,taxation etc etc

Dick Dasterdly

A better solution would have been to have done the same as Norway which kept it's trading agreements with the EU without actually joining, but later joined the EEC instead.
They did not muck away their assets, such as their huge fishing rights, which I believe are still their main source of income.

The UKs fishing rights were even greater,the biggest of all, until we were dumb enough to hand them on a plate to the rest of Europe.

I recall when just about any kid in the village could always afford the few pennies it cost for fish and chips, whereas since joining the EU we have to pay through the nose for our piece of cod, and in any event can rarely get it fresh now anyway.
An arrangement such as Norways would have suited us much better.


Just think what we'd have saved on excessive contributions to the hangers on countries, not to mention the millions wasted on the Brussels MEPs gravy train, merrily milking the taxpayers, whilst discussing the pros and cons of square tomatoes and straight cucumbers.
Now more recently an EU president who nobody has ever heard of, not democratically elected, presides over us dishing out the orders.
All very sad.

HBG

You can’t compare the UK with Norway, or Switzerland, or Denmark – we’re much bigger and more important than those small countries. What you can compare the UK with is Germany, France and Spain, the biggest players in the EU.

We joined the union initially for trade reasons, most of our exports go to Europe, but the EU got bigger and bigger, became a serious rival to the US and we started to waver because of our traditional ties with the US, and our strong Monarchy which precluded us from many of the EU expansions anyway.

As for coming out of Europe now, it’s virtually impossible, the world has changed too much and the US is more interested in the whole of Europe rather than the UK on its own.

And I think it’s a bit rich to complain about MEPs expenses considering what our own lot have been up to.

cricketman

[QUOTE=Dick Dasterdly;9110983]A better solution would have been to have done the same as Norway which kept it's trading agreements with the EU without actually joining, but later joined the EEC instead.
They did not muck away their assets, such as their huge fishing rights, which I believe are still their main source of income.

The UKs fishing rights were even greater,the biggest of all, until we were dumb enough to hand them on a plate to the rest of Europe.

I recall when just about any kid in the village could always afford the few pennies it cost for fish and chips, whereas since joining the EU we have to pay through the nose for our piece of cod, and in any event can rarely get it fresh now anyway.
An arrangement such as Norways would have suited us much better.

QUOTE]

You almost got it right, except that Norway is one of the richest countries in the world thanks to its oil reserves, not its fish!

Thats why it didnt want to join the EU. Credit to Norway, they subsidise everyones salary using the proceeds from the oil so even cleaners there earn good salaries. Everything is very expensive though.

steviedeluxe

The price of fish (and certain seafood) has gone up because old fields have become exhausted, and ships have to go further afield chasing diminishing stocks. Can anyone seriously suggest that British trawlers (assuming they could still sell fish) would turn down higher prices from French, Italian or Spanish buyers so that UK kids could have cheaper snacks? In fact a lot of the world's best seafood is still harvested off Scotland, and sold at Scottish markets. A large percentage doesn't usually end up in the UK though
It's funny though - the argument against the agricultural policy is often that French farmers are "inefficient" compared to their British counterparts. Yet when Spanish or Russian fishermen wipe the floor with their UK counterparts, you never hear the word "efficiency" in the UK media.
As for the specific issue of Cod, wasn't that battle lost long ago in the Icelandic "wars"? Iceland put their foot down over cod grounds, as they realised that unless something was done quickly, there'd be no cod left to argue about. That hit places like Grimsby (and the associated industries there) very hard. Despite having some family who come from that part of the world, I don't see how a different way could have been found tbh.

jackytoo

Spanish fishermen have been caught many times fishing illegally and using the wrong size nets both off the UK coast and their own. Their relentless black market in catching and selling chanquetes has devasted stocks in the Med. They even import Prawns from Canada and China.

The Uk fishing industry stuck to the quotas whilst the rest of europe didn't.

steviedeluxe

Maybe you didn't see the documentaries on UK trawlermen? It's quite obvious that out at sea they all try and get away with what they can (gets harder with new technology). Unless of course you believe that Brits are born naturally honest, and JohnnyForeigner is by nature dishonest...

To be fair to all of those who engage in this trade, it's got to be one of the hardest/most dangerous trades there is. I certainly don't envy their lot, and if they manage to actually make money out of it, good luck to them. Plenty of them have ceased trading over the years

Dick Dasterdly

I don't know the current figures, but until just a few years ago at least, Norways income from it's fish stocks actually exceeded its oil and gas income.
The UK had huge reserves prior to joining the EU, due to the vast extent of territorial waters to which we held fishing rights.
Even allowing for the loss of the Icelandic fishing grounds, the stocks within British waters still far exceeded that of most other EU countries put together.
Had they been retained, I doubt very much they would have been overfished and had stocks depleted to anything like the extent that has occured since uncle tom cobbley and all joined in and almost wiped the stocks out.
Fresh fish would have been far more plentiful, much cheaper on the home market with likely a much greater export market also
Yes our population is much greater than Norways, therefore much greater reason to protect our assets.
Also interesting to note Icelands reluctance to join the EU for much the same reason.

bil

Now that's a good post.

rugbymatt

Since we are talking about fish I'd draw everyones attention to this site.... http://www.fishfight.net/ They are trying to get up to a million signatures, its over half a million in a week, and having watched the documentaries it is shocking what's going on in the world with the fish stocks, I honestly don't think people realise why fish are being decimated and why we are running out of fish... its NOT JUST because of overfishing, its also because more than half the fish we land in Europe is thrown back dead thanks to the utter mess of the quote system..... and don't get me started on the shark fin industry!!!!!!!!!

agoreira

Spain knows a bit about that.
http://www.publico.es/ciencias/19712...buron-de-la-ue