Originally Posted by rugbymatt (Post 7298562)

I thought we established a while back that each area had slightly different rules and regulations?!?!?!?

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 7298530)

JDR, I am not sure you are 100% right on this point.

Yes, the law now requires you to sign on the foreigners register after 90 days in Spain but that does not necessarily make you a legal resident of Spain. Let's be quite clear here, you do not get issued with a "residencia certificate". You "apply for registration as an EU citizen on the central register of foreigners". This does not necessarily make you a "resident".

There are actually two different certificates. If you have lived in Spain for 5 years you can apply for a certificate of entitlement to permanent residence in Spain. The certificate looks identical but the wording is slightly different. If you hold one of these then you could reasonably be expected to be a true "resident" but by then you would have become tax resident anyway.

Under this law all those thousands of holiday home owners who regularly spend a few months in Spain in the winter are also obliged to sign on this register (not than any of them do so).

If they did, that clearly would not make them resident with regard to the laws applying to foreign cars in Spain as many of them quite legally drive down to Spain and return at the end of their holiday.

The only clearly defined form of Spanish residency is tax residency, which I am sure we all know is when you spend more than 183 days in Spain in one calendar year. It is also this type of residency that determines you rights to not pay NR taxes, CGT and IHT. The holding of a foreigners registration certificate is not considered to be relevant in these cases.

The rules about replating you car when you become resident are simple - when you become permanently resident you should replate it as soon as possible and at worst within 6 months - that is the EU wide rule laid down by the EU.

The problem is that residency status is not clearly defined (apart from tax residency and right to permanent residency) and the new 90 day requirement for a registration certificate has confused the situation even more.

On the very few (sadly) occasions where people have had their cars impounded it has been quite clear to the Guardia that they are long term residents from obvious "clues" like the kids go to the local school or they have been driving their old van around with builders materials in it for the last few years. In the simplest cases the lack of a UK tax disk is good enough proof.

Unfortunately is is still a "grey" area (even more than before the changes) so there will be many conflicting and often wrong interpretations of the way these new rules affect such things as car ownership etc.

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 7298734)

The rules and regulations are set by the EU with regard to free movement of people and cars etc across the EU.

The only regional differences are that individual member states can ignore them if they wish to, but they cannot impose more stringent rules.

But then we all know that Spain chooses to do exactly what it likes!

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 7298753)

It clearly states on it.... residente comunitario en Espana .

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 7299470)

Precisely!

A Community resident in Spain.

IE a community (ie EU) resident in Spain - not a Spanish resident.

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 7301631)

Well I and the Social Security dept translate that to resident of the community of Spain.

This certificate is the one that they need as proof of residencia for the Social Security when you register for Spanish health care.

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 7301850)

I wasn't aware that Spain is a community - the EU is though.

My point is that the question of residency is now a very confused area.

Take two cases. The first, Granny Jones comes to Spain on a 4 month Saga holiday. Officially she has to register after 90 days and a month later deregister. Is he a resident or not?

The second, Flash Fred, lives in Marbella permanently but at the end of each 89 day period goes to Portugal to play golf. When he gets back the clock starts ticking again. So long as he does this regularly he is not obliged to register. However he is tax resident and pays his taxes because he exceeds the 183 day tax residency rule.

Confusing? Yes - exactly my point!

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Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 7301850)

Confusing? Yes - exactly my point!

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Originally Posted by Mitzyboy (Post 7302266)

Im always confused about everything in Spain :)

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy (Post 7298480)

Bengy I dont think its personal issues, its that the question of cars comes up so often on here.

Many people think they can live here and pay their taxes in the UK
Many think they can still use the NHS when they are no longer UK residents
And more than anything, many people think they can bring a UK car over to Spain and just leave it here forever and a day legally ....... and they can't.

The fact that they do it doesnt make it legal, its just that they get away with it. There are all kinds of issues re MOT, road tax, insurance etc etc.

Originally Posted by Bengy (Post 7304019)

I quite agree, I am mainly talking from a UK resident point of view, with a holiday home in Spain, which I spend less than six Months in , BUT may I suggest than interested parties invest in a very well written publication by DAVID SEARL "YOU AND THE LAW IN SPAIN" all is very well covered here from all aspects. So I will no longer respond to this debate.
Bengy