UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
Sep 28th 2008, 2:37 pm
#136
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
I doubt many people publicise to the authorities that they have paid cash in order to get a job done on the cheap. The payment may be legal, but you are assisting tax avoidance in order to pay out less which, in my book, is double standards.
I think that is the whole point of this thread: double standards. It is not about comparing the level and seriousness of crime.
I think that is the whole point of this thread: double standards. It is not about comparing the level and seriousness of crime.
When I admitted that I had paid for a job or two,the poster said I was just a guilty (of theft)as the person committing the fraud (working and claiming income support or avoiding tax).
He said I was guilty of theft because theft is theft is theft, to quote him,
I was only asking if anyone could find a sentence where a person has been convicted for paying a person on benefit to do a job on the side, like painting their house.
And where is it recorded that the offence is the same and carries the same punishment as the person receiving the payment or not declaring the monies paid to them.
Sep 28th 2008, 2:51 pm
#137
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Joined: Jan 2006
Location: midlands/denia
Posts: 4,340
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
The whole of this thread is about benefit fraud. I was asked if I had ever paid anyone on the side. We are not talking about double standards, we were talking about theft
When I admitted that I had paid for a job or two,the poster said I was just a guilty (of theft)as the person committing the fraud (working and claiming income support or avoiding tax).
He said I was guilty of theft because theft is theft is theft, to quote him,
I was only asking if anyone could find a sentence where a person has been convicted for paying a person on benefit to do a job on the side, like painting their house.
And where is it recorded that the offence is the same and carries the same punishment as the person receiving the payment or not declaring the monies paid to them.
When I admitted that I had paid for a job or two,the poster said I was just a guilty (of theft)as the person committing the fraud (working and claiming income support or avoiding tax).
He said I was guilty of theft because theft is theft is theft, to quote him,
I was only asking if anyone could find a sentence where a person has been convicted for paying a person on benefit to do a job on the side, like painting their house.
And where is it recorded that the offence is the same and carries the same punishment as the person receiving the payment or not declaring the monies paid to them.
I agree with the poster who said you are as guilty as the person committing fraud because you are aiding and abetting the crime. The fraudster could not have committed benefit fraud if you had not paid him.
Not sure of legalities, but I am talking about the morality of decrying fraud while, at the same time, making a financial gain.
Sep 28th 2008, 3:51 pm
#138
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
Well, a friend in the 'biz' sent me this.
Penalties: Statutory Conspiracy. Criminal Law Act 1977
Statutory conspiracy is triable only on indictment. A person convicted under section 1 is liable to a sentence of imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum provided for the offence that he has conspired to commit.
http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/site/crimi...ce/statact.htm
So, it is a crime, and were someone to grass you for paying someone to do work on the black, you might find yourself in more trouble than you think.
I think you are quite right that people who grass are unlikely to get penalised. Teacher loves a sneak, even if the rest of us despise them.
As Montgomail points out, this was about the morality involved. Most of us would look at someone like you, twitching the curtains and desperate to grass up someone to boost their self worth, and see a hypocrite, someone worthy of contempt.
Penalties: Statutory Conspiracy. Criminal Law Act 1977
Statutory conspiracy is triable only on indictment. A person convicted under section 1 is liable to a sentence of imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum provided for the offence that he has conspired to commit.
http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/site/crimi...ce/statact.htm
So, it is a crime, and were someone to grass you for paying someone to do work on the black, you might find yourself in more trouble than you think.
I think you are quite right that people who grass are unlikely to get penalised. Teacher loves a sneak, even if the rest of us despise them.
As Montgomail points out, this was about the morality involved. Most of us would look at someone like you, twitching the curtains and desperate to grass up someone to boost their self worth, and see a hypocrite, someone worthy of contempt.
Sep 28th 2008, 4:07 pm
#139
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Leigh, Lancs. Ex Valencia!
Posts: 1,778
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
Well, a friend in the 'biz' sent me this.
Penalties: Statutory Conspiracy. Criminal Law Act 1977
Statutory conspiracy is triable only on indictment. A person convicted under section 1 is liable to a sentence of imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum provided for the offence that he has conspired to commit.
http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/site/crimi...ce/statact.htm
So, it is a crime, and were someone to grass you for paying someone to do work on the black, you might find yourself in more trouble than you think.
I think you are quite right that people who grass are unlikely to get penalised. Teacher loves a sneak, even if the rest of us despise them.
As Montgomail points out, this was about the morality involved. Most of us would look at someone like you, twitching the curtains and desperate to grass up someone to boost their self worth, and see a hypocrite, someone worthy of contempt.
Penalties: Statutory Conspiracy. Criminal Law Act 1977
Statutory conspiracy is triable only on indictment. A person convicted under section 1 is liable to a sentence of imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum provided for the offence that he has conspired to commit.
http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/site/crimi...ce/statact.htm
So, it is a crime, and were someone to grass you for paying someone to do work on the black, you might find yourself in more trouble than you think.
I think you are quite right that people who grass are unlikely to get penalised. Teacher loves a sneak, even if the rest of us despise them.
As Montgomail points out, this was about the morality involved. Most of us would look at someone like you, twitching the curtains and desperate to grass up someone to boost their self worth, and see a hypocrite, someone worthy of contempt.
Sep 28th 2008, 4:44 pm
#141
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
[QUOTE=bil;6825485]
Dear god, I didn't realise people this thick were capable of accessing the internet.
Want to switch the old brain on next time?
Benefit fraudsters steal from the government.
People who do black money work steal from the government.
People who pay for black money work steal from the government.
So what's the difference? Or is it that you are an ignorant hypocrite who sees it as acceptable to steal from/conspire to help someone steal from the Spanish government, but comes over all pious when someone steals from the UK government?
As for comparing GG with the little old lady? This is so deeply ignorant that I laughed out loud!
The one is a premeditated, violent criminal act, knowingly commmited. A major sin of comission, if you like.
The other is an accidental taking of a small item. There was no intent to rob, and if genuine it would not be considered a crime.
You on the other hand are a criminal in that you knowingly defrauded/conspired to defraud the government of revenue.
A link related to copyright.
Is that the best you can do.
Where is the precedent that shows that a householder was sentenced by a court of law, for paying a workman a few quit on the side.
If you show me what I am asking for, I will concede that I am a theif, as you have already called me.
Dear god, I didn't realise people this thick were capable of accessing the internet.
Want to switch the old brain on next time?
Benefit fraudsters steal from the government.
People who do black money work steal from the government.
People who pay for black money work steal from the government.
So what's the difference? Or is it that you are an ignorant hypocrite who sees it as acceptable to steal from/conspire to help someone steal from the Spanish government, but comes over all pious when someone steals from the UK government?
As for comparing GG with the little old lady? This is so deeply ignorant that I laughed out loud!
The one is a premeditated, violent criminal act, knowingly commmited. A major sin of comission, if you like.
The other is an accidental taking of a small item. There was no intent to rob, and if genuine it would not be considered a crime.
You on the other hand are a criminal in that you knowingly defrauded/conspired to defraud the government of revenue.
Is that the best you can do.
Where is the precedent that shows that a householder was sentenced by a court of law, for paying a workman a few quit on the side.
If you show me what I am asking for, I will concede that I am a theif, as you have already called me.
Sep 28th 2008, 4:58 pm
#142
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: inaskip
Posts: 1,380
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
IM selling long range binoculars.some with night vission.I think I could make a killing selling them to most of the ex pats.
I dont know if Im being paranoid.I just popped out and sold some to some ex pats.and I swear but Im not sure.I was being followed home by an ex pat with a walki talki in his hand
I dont know if Im being paranoid.I just popped out and sold some to some ex pats.and I swear but Im not sure.I was being followed home by an ex pat with a walki talki in his hand
Last edited by betris; Sep 28th 2008 at 5:03 pm.
Sep 28th 2008, 5:15 pm
#143
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Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
Watch out everyone, Whispering Grass is back.
[QUOTE=me me;6827607]
Did I say you are a thief? I'm pretty sure that I said that in conspiring to commit fraud, you were as bad as those that commit it. I'm pretty sure that the accusation ofb being a theif comes from your own guilty conscience, but I'm sure you can clarify that.
You are the one after all that turned it onto proof of criminal convictions in an attempt to muddy the water.
My original question, which you have carefully avoided, still stands.
What's the difference between defrauding the Spanish government and defrauding the K governmet?
[QUOTE=me me;6827607]
A link related to copyright.
Is that the best you can do.
Where is the precedent that shows that a householder was sentenced by a court of law, for paying a workman a few quit on the side.
If you show me what I am asking for, I will concede that I am a theif, as you have already called me.
Is that the best you can do.
Where is the precedent that shows that a householder was sentenced by a court of law, for paying a workman a few quit on the side.
If you show me what I am asking for, I will concede that I am a theif, as you have already called me.
You are the one after all that turned it onto proof of criminal convictions in an attempt to muddy the water.
My original question, which you have carefully avoided, still stands.
What's the difference between defrauding the Spanish government and defrauding the K governmet?
Sep 28th 2008, 5:26 pm
#144
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: inaskip
Posts: 1,380
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
[QUOTE=bil;6827661]Watch out everyone, Whispering Grass is back.
Did I say you are a thief? I'm pretty sure that I said that in conspiring to commit fraud, you were as bad as those that commit it. I'm pretty sure that the accusation ofb being a theif comes from your own guilty conscience, but I'm sure you can clarify that.
You are the one after all that turned it onto proof of criminal convictions in an attempt to muddy the water.
My original question, which you have carefully avoided, still stands.
What's the difference between defrauding the Spanish government and defrauding the K governmet?
The only difference I can see is. One is euos and the other pounds
Did I say you are a thief? I'm pretty sure that I said that in conspiring to commit fraud, you were as bad as those that commit it. I'm pretty sure that the accusation ofb being a theif comes from your own guilty conscience, but I'm sure you can clarify that.
You are the one after all that turned it onto proof of criminal convictions in an attempt to muddy the water.
My original question, which you have carefully avoided, still stands.
What's the difference between defrauding the Spanish government and defrauding the K governmet?
Sep 28th 2008, 5:31 pm
#145
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
[QUOTE=bil;6827661]Watch out everyone, Whispering Grass is back.
Did I say you are a thief? I'm pretty sure that I said that in conspiring to commit fraud, you were as bad as those that commit it. I'm pretty sure that the accusation ofb being a theif comes from your own guilty conscience, but I'm sure you can clarify that.
You are the one after all that turned it onto proof of criminal convictions in an attempt to muddy the water.
My original question, which you have carefully avoided, still stands.
What's the difference between defrauding the Spanish government and defrauding the K governmet?
Yes you did say I am a theif read below
You said I was a criminal and the crime you accused me of is theft.
So what's the difference? Or is it that you are an ignorant hypocrite who sees it as acceptable to steal from/conspire to help someone steal from the Spanish government, but comes over all pious when someone steals from the UK government?
on the other hand are a criminal in that you knowingly defrauded/conspired to defraud the government of revenue
Did I say you are a thief? I'm pretty sure that I said that in conspiring to commit fraud, you were as bad as those that commit it. I'm pretty sure that the accusation ofb being a theif comes from your own guilty conscience, but I'm sure you can clarify that.
You are the one after all that turned it onto proof of criminal convictions in an attempt to muddy the water.
My original question, which you have carefully avoided, still stands.
What's the difference between defrauding the Spanish government and defrauding the K governmet?
You said I was a criminal and the crime you accused me of is theft.
So what's the difference? Or is it that you are an ignorant hypocrite who sees it as acceptable to steal from/conspire to help someone steal from the Spanish government, but comes over all pious when someone steals from the UK government?
on the other hand are a criminal in that you knowingly defrauded/conspired to defraud the government of revenue
Sep 28th 2008, 5:44 pm
#146
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
Can we please just discuss this without starting World War III 
Sep 28th 2008, 5:47 pm
#147
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Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
Quite right Mitz. There's something inherently distasteful in a grass coming over all moralistic.
Sep 28th 2008, 5:49 pm
#149
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
Sep 28th 2008, 5:51 pm
#150
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: UK Benefit Fraud - New Spanish Hotline
