scrubbedexpat137 

Hi,

Hope it's okay to ask this here, checked forum rules and it appears to be.

Has anyone come across true/real peer-to-peer loan organizations here in Spain?

I used to do quite a bit of it when I could afford to with friends and acquaintances to set up their small businesses or get through a tight patch and the like. When I search online, they are all private finance companies which charge no interest if it's paid back quickly but do charge interest, and exorbitant rates if a borrower is late with the repayment of the loan, that are in no way peer-to-peer lending. It seems to be just a large, corporate and rather automated market of payday lenders and all that that business line entails.

As usual, cynical use of the terminology is everything: these companies describe themselves as being individuals offering interest-free loans, presumably as individual investors plough money into them counting on borrowers falling behind with repayments, which is where they must make a tidy sum...

Has anyone seen anything that doesn't fall into the usurer and/or loan shark categories, anything similar to credit unions or actual individuals who do formal (i.e. with a contractual, binding agreement) legitimate peer-to-peer, interest-free loans?

Like to hear from anyone who knows of such a thing.

Pulaski

Why would anyone offer interest free loans? ..... I am aware that there are reasons, but I am interested to hear why you think they would as it would probably shed some light on your question.

scrubbedexpat137 

Hi,

I'm not sure about the tone of your question, but still.

Were I religious, I'd point out that usury is a sin, for starters, but I'm not, 'though I'm sure you can understand the value of that value.

​​​​​​Well, I think they would because I made interest-free loans to others, for a start. I believe in solidarity, respecting people, not being rude, hurtful or snide or patronizing to others, helping others when one can, not exploiting the needy, that the debt-based society of perma-usury is an ever-increasing whirlpool of misery that sucks more people in and is a construct used to maintain power in few hands which distorts democratic processes and makes a mockery of holding elections, and is only bought into by the unscrupulous or the not especially bright in society, for example.

I would go on, but I asked a serious question not expecting to get a snide answer, so I'd rather leave the conversation there, thanks. Not into trolling or being trolled.

Pulaski

I was just interested, maybe my brevity gave the wrong impression.

You are obviously a good person if you want to make interest free loans, but IME there is usally some sort of quid pro quo, for an interest free loan, even if it is only the warm feeling you get from "giving back, for the good of society". In the case of lending and borrowing through some sort of organization, then a borrower might be expected to contribute to the organization, either in cash or kind, to "qualify" for interest free finance, so under those circumstances there would be a "cost" even it is isn't paid in interest.

scot47

Beware of those who will lend you money and then foreclose when u miss a payment !

scrubbedexpat137 

Hi,

Okay, in my opinion those are mostly positive reasons and dynamics, not necessarily selfless, 'though. Another reason to add would be that - although it is true that people get a good feeling and a boost to their self-esteem by engaging in acts of kindness - it could be done not for oneself but as a duty to society or others with little emotional engagement in the act or even disapproval, the same as mathematics is more doing than feeling, strange comparison, but still, I hope it can be understood.

Interesting insights you have provided, Pulaski, thanks.

scrubbedexpat137 

Hi,

limey610

But surely there must be adequate cover for default

Pulaski

Beware of those who will borrow your money and assume it's a gift.

Yorkshire Princess

Have you thought about contacting some charities to see if they know of any?

It seems to me the simplest thing to do at the moment if you have the disposable income is go out and spend it in your local independent businesses, because it is them that are being hit the hardest by the shutdown and not the supermarkets, banks, mobile phone providers etc. Perhaps you could contact the bloke who runs Mercadona and ask for funding. I read in the paper that he had a meeting with the Spanish gobierno, and told them how badly the group was doing under the lockdown. You never know though, there might be some money left in their (probably) off-shore, tax haven bank accounts!

missile

I am waiting for OP to post, "You might like to share in this new wonderful investment opportunity I have found"

scrubbedexpat137 

Hi,

Very witty, I appreciate that realist sense of humour, good on you. I'm sure George '7 jobs' Osborne is more your man for 'I have drawn up a clever financial vehicle you really should get in on early, the profits are routed directly to the Cayman Islands and you can charge any investment losses to the general public and they'll never even find out.' or a company involved in whatever the next carbon credit trading scam is going to be.

​​

scrubbedexpat137 

Hi,

Hi, yes, I have, I finally found an organisation that helps people going through difficult periods, let's see how it goes.

Richard Branson's having a tough time of it, too, allegedly.

I agree with you and want to add, you don't have to be a genius to comprehend that while we're all printing money for our wealthy friends to - some of them - siphon off into their bulging tax avoidance accounts, a far more effective way of getting the V-shaped rebound stock markets are hoping for and to stimulate economies is to print some of this same seemingly endless Monopoly money and give a fair sum to every member of public with no conditions attached - just see how fast unpaid bills and debts get paid, consumer shopping orgy splurges on, housebuyers have deposit to feed real estate and banks, homeless are afforded dignity of getting off streets and into accomodation to re-start lives, airlines and tourism have paying punters, etc. maybe even - as apparently Coronavirus has made us all right-on and caring - charities would get a much-needed boost in income and chug less with DONATE NOW emails, and thus economic kick-start much needed happens. Oxfam wouldn't have had to close operations in 18 countries, maybe.

But Alice in Wonderland Monopoly money is not for the proletariat - they can't be trusted to spend it where those donors who pay for policy want it to end up, I imagine.

Pulaski

You forgot purchases of recreational pharmaceuticals. ..... You can bet that probably 10% of any stimulus goes into criminal enterprises - drugs, gambling, and prostitution.

scrubbedexpat137 

Hi,


Weak, and naïvely provocative on so many fronts, if I may say. I guess that's the intention.

​​​​​Personal morals aside... Is gambling illegal? Apparently, or should I say especially, not in the UK or anywhere that has a lottery in place.

Drugs and prostitution are legal activities in some countries.

Sex work is often also done by women who have to provide for their families/be the breadwinner - so their clients' money truly ends up in the real economy. Drug dealers are rarely Joaquín Sánchez or terrorists, excluding wealthy non-prescribed medication vendors out of reach of law enforcement as they are highly respectable citizens, they are more likely to be the disenfranchised who have no other income options, or respectable citizens who cannot get by and aspire to a home, providing for their family; the younger ones maybe spend the proceeds on expensive trainers and large plasma TVs and good cars to brag about - bought in reputable retailers, so the dirty money ends up back in the real economy, again. Gamblers with any sense, i.e. not an addiction, will know when to quit and invest the money in tangible goods and assets, mostly only obtainable in the real economy, again.

Witb gambling, the money rarely returns to the real economy afaik.

An MP described the House of Commons as full of drug addicts and alcoholics. Remember the Labour peer caught on camera telling the two sex workers he'd hired that the €200 expenses he claimed each day covered their fees and the two grams of cocaine he was sharing with them...

Harrods, Fortnum and Mason's and so on have yet to refuse service to the family members of dictators, murderers, money launderers, tax avoiders, conmen/women, drug kingpins and other delinquents. Suggest you point out where some of their profits stem from or start a petition to close them down.

Maybe, if we're grown-up and pragmatic, and accept these are realities whatever our personal moreés and principles may be, and avoid dehumanizing large sections of society with thinly-veiled moralistic aspersions about their lifestyle choices and occupations, better for 10% of the Monopoly money to be misused than for 90% to go to 10 people and be siphoned out of the real economy, again and again and again. I read yesterday that the median sum given to charity by the world's richest is a woeful €240 per year each - I was giving double that earning less than €10,000 net a year...

When the police, intelligence agencies by necessity trade in illegal goods (arms, drugs) in the course of their operations, engaging in what are by law defined as criminal activities, sometimes to remove extremely dreadful individuals from society for your safety, do you get worked up about that, too? When questionable methods and sources of finance are used to free political or kidnap hostages by government departaments, what do we do, say 'No, that' s morally wrong, let those MSF doctors stay kidnapped by pirates?'

​I could go on and on, but you're just playing devil's advocate and teasing, so I'll shut up.