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Brexitcasualities May 24th 2023 6:37 am

Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 
I have a UK passport, my wife is Spanish. We plan to stay in Spain for 180 days pa (so not ES tax resident). I sometimes will need to travel alone to UK. Can I travel alone with our Libro de Familiar (we married in Spain)? If not is there other documentation I can get to travel alone?

rspltd May 24th 2023 7:05 am

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 
If you have a U.K. passport you will need nothing else.

Brexitcasualities May 24th 2023 7:14 am

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 
Even if I exceed the 90 days in 180, which I plan to do?
We would stay in Spain Oct-Mar but I would like to return to the UK alone sometimes in that period.

snikpoh May 24th 2023 7:41 am

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by Brexitcasualities (Post 13194248)
Even if I exceed the 90 days in 180, which I plan to do?
We would stay in Spain Oct-Mar but I would like to return to the UK alone sometimes in that period.

if you exceed 90 days, then you SHOULD get Spanish residency!

So many are forgetting this law/rule

Ronnyone May 24th 2023 7:51 am

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by Brexitcasualities (Post 13194244)
I have a UK passport, my wife is Spanish. We plan to stay in Spain for 180 days pa (so not ES tax resident). I sometimes will need to travel alone to UK. Can I travel alone with our Libro de Familiar (we married in Spain)? If not is there other documentation I can get to travel alone?

Do you not need residency if you want to spend more than 90 days? Your wife is fine but you don't get 180 days automatically.

DLC May 24th 2023 11:35 am

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 
Reading this, I would go for...

Marriage certificate. If it's British, with the Hague Apostille and even better with an official translation, but you said you got married in Spain so you can get an official copy from the Registro Civil.

Photocopy of your wife's DNI/Passport, notarised.

But even so, I think that would only allow you to join her if she's already in Spain.

Also when travelling alone the documents may or may not be accepted or you may or may not be stamped in/out depending on how the border police interprets the rules and then you may have been deemed to overstay.

Although you can travel round the EU with your wife, saying for more than 90 days in Spain means you both need to be residents.

Lou71 May 24th 2023 8:28 pm

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by Brexitcasualities (Post 13194248)
Even if I exceed the 90 days in 180, which I plan to do?
We would stay in Spain Oct-Mar but I would like to return to the UK alone sometimes in that period.

You can certainly stay in Spain for 180 days without being resident as long as you are with your EU (Spanish in your case) wife. The tricky part is your travelling to and from the UK alone after you have gone past the 90 day mark - your passport will be stamped on entry and exit. You can join your wife if she is in Spain but there is no guarantee you will not be questioned at the border either leaving and entering Spain while travelling alone and border officials seem to be hazy on the rules and seem to have varying ideas of the rules for EU dependents like yourself. My (British) partner is in the same situation as you and never has the same experience twice.

It would be safer and easier if you could just stick together in Spain for the 180 days. As others have said, make sure you have your marriage certificate with you when travelling.


bolton wanderer May 25th 2023 9:43 am

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by Brexitcasualities (Post 13194248)
Even if I exceed the 90 days in 180, which I plan to do?
We would stay in Spain Oct-Mar but I would like to return to the UK alone sometimes in that period.

You cannot legally stay in Spain for longer than 90 days without becoming resident or, if holding an EU passport, registering for a resident permit.

Is your wife resident in Spain?

bobd22 May 25th 2023 12:11 pm

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by bolton wanderer (Post 13194432)
You cannot legally stay in Spain for longer than 90 days without becoming resident or, if holding an EU passport, registering for a resident permit.

Is your wife resident in Spain?

Surely if the OPs wife is a Spanish citizen residency will not be an issue? The requirement to pay tax could be for a stay over 183 days. If she's a citizen 3rd country rules don't apply to her in her home country. Just same as UK citizens have the right to return and live in the UK without needing to obtain residency or other permission. They must however comply with other rules/laws such as tax compliance

Lou71 May 25th 2023 1:16 pm

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by bobd22 (Post 13194455)
Surely if the OPs wife is a Spanish citizen residency will not be an issue? The requirement to pay tax could be for a stay over 183 days. If she's a citizen 3rd country rules don't apply to her in her home country. Just same as UK citizens have the right to return and live in the UK without needing to obtain residency or other permission. They must however comply with other rules/laws such as tax compliance

I agree, the OP is married to a Spaniard and as long as they are together, they can stay in Spain for 183 days without becoming tax resident.

The 90/180 day rule is a Schengen rule and again, as long as they are travelling together, they have free movement in the Schengen zone and can come and go as often as they like.

This might be helpful:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons

Basically, freedom of movement for EU nationals and their dependents is god!

bolton wanderer May 25th 2023 6:17 pm

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by Lou71 (Post 13194472)
I agree, the OP is married to a Spaniard and as long as they are together, they can stay in Spain for 183 days without becoming tax resident.

The 90/180 day rule is a Schengen rule and again, as long as they are travelling together, they have free movement in the Schengen zone and can come and go as often as they like.

This might be helpful:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/facts...ent-of-persons

Basically, freedom of movement for EU nationals and their dependents is god!

The O/P is asking if he can legally stay longer than 90 days and then travel in/out of the Schengen area alone.

As UK resident, UK passport holder, his passport should be stamped on entry/exit to the Schengen area, whether he is travelling with his Spanish wife or not. It would be difficult for the border officials in any of the Schengen entry/exit points to differentiate his status from any other UK passport holder.


Lou71 May 25th 2023 6:37 pm

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by bolton wanderer (Post 13194515)
The O/P is asking if he can legally stay longer than 90 days and then travel in/out of the Schengen area alone.

As UK resident, UK passport holder, his passport should be stamped on entry/exit to the Schengen area, whether he is travelling with his Spanish wife or not. It would be difficult for the border officials in any of the Schengen entry/exit points to differentiate his status from any other UK passport holder.

I agree, that's why I said it would be risky for him to travel alone once he goes over 90 days. He would be at risk of not being allowed back into Spain.

He and his wife (who is a Spaniard) can stay in Spain for 183 days unhindered as long as they are together though.

BritInParis May 25th 2023 8:10 pm

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by Lou71 (Post 13194472)
I agree, the OP is married to a Spaniard and as long as they are together, they can stay in Spain for 183 days without becoming tax resident.

The 90/180 day rule is a Schengen rule and again, as long as they are travelling together, they have free movement in the Schengen zone and can come and go as often as they like.

This might be helpful:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/facts...ent-of-persons

Basically, freedom of movement for EU nationals and their dependents is god!

Freedom of movement doesn’t apply in your country of nationality. If the OP wishes to remain in Spain for more than 90 days then he’ll need to apply for a residence permit based on his marriage to a Spanish citizen.

DLC May 26th 2023 7:20 am

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 
An EU family member card requires you to stay six months per year in Spain, there's the tax thing at 183 days so if you could time every Spanish visit to be 181 or 182 days...

Brexitcasualities May 26th 2023 7:49 am

Re: Travelling alone with Libro de Familiar, UK passport, without ES wife
 

Originally Posted by DLC (Post 13194592)
An EU family member card requires you to stay six months per year in Spain, there's the tax thing at 183 days so if you could time every Spanish visit to be 181 or 182 days...

Yes, thanks for confirming what I was thinking. Seems like the best way for me to be able to travel alone is to apply for an EU family member card and spend 181-182 days pa in Spain.


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