Totally Confused
 

Hi we are moving to Spain initially in a rental property in Montroy outside of Valencia and have had so many varying bits of information thrown at us we are turning to experts who have done it and got the 'T' shirt so to speak.

We understand that we need an NIE number and during a recent visit obtained the necessary application forms from the local police. We understand that we can complete these and apply for the number at the Spanish Consulate in Manchester before coming over to save queuing.

However what we are not clear about is what other forms do we need to complete. We are not taking up Spanish Residency maintaining a home in the UK and paying taxes there, by the way I am a silver haired senior citizen drawing my UK State pension but have income also plus other private pensions in the UK all paid into a UK bank account, sounds a lot but believe me it is not.

I have just read that if we are going to stay in Spain for more than 3 months we need to register and obtain a registration certificate as an EU Resident (certificado de registro). This document certifies our residence in Spain and states name, address, nationality, and the foreigners tax identification or NIE (Número de Identificación de Extranjero) number along with date of registration.

Another site says we need a Empadronamiento is this a different form and do we need both or one of them if so which one?

We would appreciate any help and advice given.

Dave

Re: Totally Confused
 

Where to start!

Firstly if you are coming to live in Spain then yes, you need to register.

I'm not sure what you mean by staying resident in the UK and paying taxes in the UK. You have to pay taxes in your country of residence, and that WILL be Spain. So in effect when you become tax resident here you will be required to do a tax return here. Worldwide income is subject to tax here, with a few notable exceptions like some Government pensions.

Your padron is like registering at the local council, and you can do that when you have arrived. If you brink a UK car you will need to matriculate it to Spanish plates

Re: Totally Confused
 

I should add that as a Spanish resident you will not have access to the NHS any more, and therefore you need to gain form E121 from DWP Newcastle which, as a pensioner, will give you full access to the Spanish health system which all in all is very good

Re: Totally Confused
 

As Mitzy says get your E 121`s, if your wife is not of pension age then she can be your dependant and get full cover too.
When you apply for your residencia certificate they will assign you an NIE number at the same time.
You will need this form to be able to sign on for medical care.
I have just had a Hernia operation and can vouch that the Spanish health care is far superior, time wise and Hospital wise to the UK.
I was in for one day only and had my own room with an ensuite shower room, plasma TV and a view of a palm tree in the sun from the patio doors.

Re: Totally Confused
 

Hi Mitzyboy
Thanks for quick reply I think I indicated that we would not be becoming RESIDENTS in Spain but would have long term visitor status by registering under
certificado de registro, does this make sense to you?

Re: Totally Confused
 

Hi JDR

many thanks for prompt reply I had not thought about form E121 We will organise that before we come.
cheers

Dave

Re: Totally Confused
 

Hi Mitzy
I should have said that my car is a lease car which of course is not registered to me I am presently clarifying with the lease company what difference this makes to having it in Spain for more than 6 months as I do not think they would appreciate having their car registered in Spain I have their written permission to drive it in Spain.

cheers

Dave

Re: Totally Confused
 

You will need the new residencia certificate to get your health cover and like it or not you will be deemed resident in Spain if you are here for more than three months and after 6 months you will become tax resident.

Re: Totally Confused
 

You will struggle to get permission for a UK lease car here if you are living in Spain, read the DVLA site regarding taking a car out of the UK.

Re: Totally Confused
 

Hi JDR

Thanks for concern in order to take a lease car out of the country one needs the paperwork from the leasing company that gives the driver the right to drive the car abroad because they do not have the VC5 registration documents for the car, this form replaces the VC5.

I have driven lease cars for over 30 years without problems but thank you for noting this and I appreciate your help

regards

Dave

Re: Totally Confused
 

joined to advertise

Re: Totally Confused
 

Note that under Spanish law, the vehicle will have to be put onto Spanish plates within three months of your arrival!
Do a search on the forum for UK cars in Spain, the topic has been covered literally hundreds of times. To be legal here, it has to be legal in its' country of registration, so taxed, insured and MOT'd in the UK, but if the car is here any longer than 3 months, you run the risk of it being impounded. Also note that very few, if any UK insurers will cover a car abroad for longer than 3 months.

Re: Totally Confused
 

Thanks for the suggestion Brenda has logged details in her Spanish folder and we shall certainly pay a visit.

regards

Dave

Re: Totally Confused
 

Hi good info although I understaood it to be 6 months I am having discussions with my leasing company over what I can and cannot do with their vehicle when I get full info from them I will post it for others to gain from my experience.

regards

Dave

Re: Totally Confused
 

Dave

In your first post you said you were turning to people who have got the T shirt!! You just saw a post from Valencia Tim about registering cars, and he normally gives good advice :)

You have had some good accurate advice on here, maybe a good idea to take it on board ;):) as its given by people who do have the T shirt :D

Re: Totally Confused
 

Since this point seems to be in dispute, perhaps you would be kind enough to quote the relevant Spanish law which says this, as it is quite contrary to EU legal advice I have been given that allows you up to 6 months to reregister a car when you become resident.

Re: Totally Confused
 

I am sure that will be really helpful for anybody that is using the same leasing company! But please take on board that a car on UK plates for more than three months will be illegal, and you run the real risk of it being impounded and crushed unless you can show that you have started the matriculation process or you can show a ferry receipt or ticket from within the preceding 3 months. Also note that to avoid the first registration tax, you have to be able to show that you have owned the car for at least 6 months, which you can't do because it belongs to the lease company.

Re: Totally Confused
 

It seems a very good idea to pay heed to sound advice.
We are moving down in September, and will get rid of the UK vehicles beforehand. We have booked a "one way" hire van, so we can bring down all we want to without having the problem of trying to sell a UK registered car in Spain.
It seems much easier to buy the car in Spain without all the
hassle of re-plating, re-registering etc. (despite the higher cost)
Simples !!

Re: Totally Confused
 

My Gestoria informs me that under Spanish law, a resident cannot drive a foreign plated vehicle, therefore as you automatically are seen as a resident after 3 months, it follows that what I said is the case. However, I bow to your superior knowledge, bearing in mind that different member states within the EU are allowed their own rules when it comes to motoring.
Perhaps someone could compile a list of all the motoring issues with links to the definitive Spanish laws, so that we don't have to keep covering the same ground.
I would also add, that if there is any doubt, it is better to be safe than sorry, than trying to convince a nice member of the Guardia that he should not take away your car and crush it!

Re: Totally Confused
 

Maybe the best advice that we can give the original poster is to seek legal advice from a qualified Gestor or Abagado before they decide what to do.
And there is a comprehensive guideto registering a vehicle here

Re: Totally Confused
 

OK I see where she is coming from.

As you become resident after 3 months you then have to START the process and you have 6 months to complete it. If you do it in the first 30 days or thereabouts you can avoid the registration tax.

The info on the EU site is clear.

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/e.../index_en.html


"IF YOU ARE MOVING

If you are moving to a different Community Member State, you must register your vehicle in that country as soon as possible after arrival and, at any rate, within six months of moving. You should have no difficulty in getting your vehicle registered provided you follow the set procedures."

Note that you haven't "moved" until you apply for registration on the foreigners register. On the form it asks you for the date that your residency in Spain started but there is no reason why you cannot enter the date of application which maximises any periods of grace.

Re: Totally Confused
 

Every time its different! :D
My gestor also says the same as Tims, and indeed my solicitor did as well :)

Re: Totally Confused
 

I'm afraid I have lost count of the times that gestors, accountants and lawyers have given out bum information on matters regarding foreigners.

Like the Guardia, they seem to invent (or being generous, misinterpret) the rules.

A friend was fined for not registering his UK car and it was made quite clear to him by his lawyer, the police and Hacienda, that the time limit was 6 months.

So here's a challenge - can anyone find anything in writing (from a government source) that contradicts what the EU guidance says?

Re: Totally Confused
 

I wonder who would be brave enough to risk having to challenge a decision by the Spanish authorities to scrap a car for not registering in 3 months, bearing in mind the Spanish record with things like Valencia Land Grab :lol:

Re: Totally Confused
 

What risk? Nobody has yet given an example of anyone having to scrap a car because it was not registered within 3 months or even anyone getting a fine or even a warning.

The case I mentioned was 6 months and there was never any question of scrapping the car - just a fine to be paid and temporary impounding (at the person's house).

In my opinion this is just another example of inaccurate information spreading like wildfire round the Internet, based on a misinterpretation of the rules, with no factual data to back it up.

As I said, I have quoted the EU position, someone please PROVE that it is incorrect.

Re: Totally Confused
 

Jeez, lighten up Fred :confused:
I was merely pointing out that what actually happens in Spain doesnt necessarily reflect what EU law is, as you should well know

I believe JDR reported that cars were being seized, and certainly Ive seen reports on another forum by one of the moderators as well

Anyways, we are talking of a lease car here and I doubt the lease company will be too happy about having a car matriculated onto Spanish plates :D

Re: Totally Confused
 

I wasn't having a go at you Mitzy. As you well know, I have a bee in my bonnet about incorrect, unsubstationed information being given out on this forum (or any other) and I don't intend to change!.

I have read reports but still no one can confirm that these cases were less than 6 months. Most of them had probably been here for years.

I know well enough that the laws are often interpreted differently here and that EU laws are sometimes ignored, but that is no reason to say that that makes them the law!

Anyone with any sense will register their car with a month or so to avoid the tax anyway!

Re: Totally Confused
 

Have you got it on a PCP? If so and it is a vehicle that has maintained its value find out what you can get for it and think about handing it back and paying off the lease and buying here in Spain. I did this when I came out with my Mini five years ago. It hadn´t lost any value so I was able to just walk away.

Re: Totally Confused
 

I understood that the tax on worldwide income has been scrapped.

Re: Totally Confused
 

I posted a pic on one of the other threads with 3 UK commercial vehicles on a grua truck that had just been confiscated by the Guardia.
I have been told that if the Guardia think that you have moved permanently over, regardless of arrival in Spain and not started the swop to Spanish plates they are not too happy.
This morning they had the owners of 3 cars in the garage forecourt and were checking details on their computer, so they are looking for easy income now they are losing so much on building licences.

Re: Totally Confused
 

Not to my knowledge. Are you confusinfg it with Wealth tax?

Re: Totally Confused
 

Not sure. I did read that one of them had recently been scrapped.

Re: Totally Confused
 

The Wealth tax has been set to zero, not scrapped, and is / was a tax on your accumulated wealth.
But I was talking about income tax, not wealth tax. In general, with some exceptions, you are taxed in Spain as a resident on your worldwide income.