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Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Old Mar 17th 2011, 10:50 am
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Default Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

From April 15th the Portuguese authorities will impose toll charges on the A22 from VRSA to Lagos.
The toll charging mechanism is electronic only (ie no manned toll booths) and will apply from the VRSA junction - the bridge will not be tolled (yet). It is by no means clear how visitors and foriegners and those using hire cars will be able to pre-pay these tolls (and post-payment incurs an additional admin charge and potential penalty if not paid within a week)
There has been a lot of information and discussion on a number of threads - eg on the Portugal BE site; under "Car Hire from Faro"; and "Useful Information" on this site.
This thead is to draw attention to these postings for those who may have missed the others, because of the titles of the threads, and missed the signficance.
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Old Mar 17th 2011, 10:55 am
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

In case anyone wonders the spelling error in the title is deliberate to attract attention
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Old Mar 17th 2011, 11:02 am
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
In case anyone wonders the spelling error in the title is deliberate to attract attention
This must be one of the most stupid things Ive heard in ages. Hundreds of thousands of tourists will descend on Faro in the summer and many would hire a car. Paying tolls - OK I can accept that, but making it totally transponder only is crazy. This sting in the tail, of admin charges or fines, after the fact, when holidays are over will only discourage people from coming again. Do they really expect people to buy a transponder for the 2 week holiday and open a portugese bank account to pay the direct debit?

STUPID!


Why couldnt they have toll gates with cash/credit card readers!! No need for transponders, and/or they could still have the optional transponders for those that travel regularly. As they do in France/Italy + most other places that have had tolls for years! They didnt think to take a look at how others do it?

STUPID!

Sounds like the planners of this are a bunch of 'tools' - so the title is good

Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Mar 17th 2011 at 11:10 am.
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Old Mar 17th 2011, 11:36 am
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

AGREE !! and ok to pay if cash or card but as you say their restrictive system is ridiculous. Not to avoid paying the toll BUT to avoid fines etc if we do not have the ability to pay the toll ie no transponder or whatever (sounds Star Trek - like!!) I was wondering if if you can get on after a toll (where will it be positioned?) in the Faro airport area then travel along the M/Way up to the next toll...is this likely to before VRSA ? and get off before the toll then back on at VRSA to miss the booth ..possibly ? Am I talking rubbish ??? Also just to stress I am not that tight , honestly, I 'll pay the toll but neurotic about hefty fines post holidays.

Mel
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Old Mar 17th 2011, 11:52 am
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl View Post
This must be one of the most stupid things Ive heard in ages. Hundreds of thousands of tourists will descend on Faro in the summer and many would hire a car. Paying tolls - OK I can accept that, but making it totally transponder only is crazy. This sting in the tail, of admin charges or fines, after the fact, when holidays are over will only discourage people from coming again. Do they really expect people to buy a transponder for the 2 week holiday and open a portugese bank account to pay the direct debit?

STUPID!


Why couldnt they have toll gates with cash/credit card readers!! No need for transponders, and/or they could still have the optional transponders for those that travel regularly. As they do in France/Italy + most other places that have had tolls for years! They didnt think to take a look at how others do it?

STUPID!

Sounds like the planners of this are a bunch of 'tools' - so the title is good
Calm down Jon; think of your blood pressure.

Of course its ridiculous and ill thought through. But I suspect this is all driven by the need to raise money and to do so quickly. In this lght it makes a sort of sense from their viewpoint. The economy in Portugal is in a complete mess (like a lot of other places, unfortunately), so there priority is to raise money quickly and easily, and cheaply. Doing so electronically is quck and relatively cheap - with no toll booths there are no expensive staff costs; and costs associated with dealing with large amounts of 'cash'. It is simple and easy fr them; and the prospect of collecting extra as an 'admin' fee forlate payment merely seems like a bonus.

Of course you are right and for the long term this is a nonsense. Any visitor who is hit with a post facto fine will feel aggrieved and will not return; so they shoot themselves in the foot.

The people who could make a big difference here are the car hire companies. If they fitted transponders in hire cars as a matter of course then a lot of the problem goes away. Hopefully time and experience will cause them to re-think the practicalities. But I won't hold my breath.

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Old Mar 17th 2011, 11:55 am
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Originally Posted by MEL & JOHN View Post
AGREE !! and ok to pay if cash or card but as you say their restrictive system is ridiculous. Not to avoid paying the toll BUT to avoid fines etc if we do not have the ability to pay the toll ie no transponder or whatever (sounds Star Trek - like!!) I was wondering if if you can get on after a toll (where will it be positioned?) in the Faro airport area then travel along the M/Way up to the next toll...is this likely to before VRSA ? and get off before the toll then back on at VRSA to miss the booth ..possibly ? Am I talking rubbish ??? Also just to stress I am not that tight , honestly, I 'll pay the toll but neurotic about hefty fines post holidays.

Mel
If its anything like France (and its NOT because they arent having cash/card tolls - stupid! ) then you cant avoid the toll, as soon as you enter the m-way you are recorded. In france you have to go through a gate and pick up a ticket, otherwise you cant get on the road. You pay at exit depending on how far you've gone. Or there is just a gate at some points that you pay a fixed sum. Parts of the motorways are tolled and parts not - but theres no way to get out of paying the toll.

A transponder system uses cameras and picks up the transponder code and you get billed accordingly. No transponder = your numberplate photo's and you get a fine. No payment of transponder bill and you get a fine (125Euros apparently!!) Car hire companies will no longer give you a credit card receipt that they tear up at the end!! (if theres no damage to the car). They will ask for the fines AND a hefty admin charge later. VERY expensive and demotivating for tourists. Lets face it Portugal NEEDS the tourist industry.

The problem is that the car-hire companies need to be fitting the transponders asap! I hear that they arent doing this - weird!

Also we've heard that we can get off at the VRSA turnoff (from Spain) without having to pay - but the 125 to eg Faro, is a long drive if one wants to avoid the tolls. Good news is that we can get to many of the places we like in Portugal on the 125. I think the whole of the m-way will be tolled from the turnoff.

If we go to the airport or further - Im OK to pay the toll - if there is a decent system for this.


Crazy! I wonder if there's anybody at the POrtugese tourist aurthority that we can contact?

Jon
Heres what I wrote on another thread....

I still cant figure out how we will pay the tolls - if we rent a car. Surely they must have the transponders fitted??? because most people renting at the airport would use the m-way, even if they are not going to Spain.

Will they give you a reading when you take the car and then one at the end? That would add a lot of time to the checkin/check out process... (and they would need a 'transponder reader' as well! If that exists - I doubt it.) and they will probably want to increase the deposit on the credit card when you book.

Ideally the transponder itself will have a readout saving a lot of hassle. But I wonder if that is the case. Its not so in France, (I think) for their transponder system - and Portugal will probably use a trusted system.

Also if people fly into Seville - they will have problems too. I wonder if the Spanish would have to pay as the x-border payment of tolls/fines may never happen. Its very complicated and needs a good admin system. That's why so far people with non-UK numberplates are getting away with eg Congestion charges and parking tickets... (still) - several million a year it all costs the UK

Finally there are problems in the x-over period, I'm sure that some people will come before the tolls and leave after... The car companies need to put the transponders in now.

IF we buy our own transponder we would need a Portugese bank account as well I suppose.

Looks complicated. Would be interested to know what the car companies will do about all this as for sure they wont be paying others tolls. And some people may get a shock later when they get a bill with fine with the usual extra admin charges added.
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Old Mar 17th 2011, 12:13 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl View Post
If its anything like France (and its NOT because they arent having cash/card tolls - stupid! ) then you cant avoid the toll, as soon as you enter the m-way you are recorded. In france you have to go through a gate and pick up a ticket, otherwise you cant get on the road. You pay at exit depending on how far you've gone. Or there is just a gate at some points that you pay a fixed sum. Parts of the motorways are tolled and parts not - but theres no way to get out of paying the toll.

A transponder system uses cameras and picks up the transponder code and you get billed accordingly. No transp numberplate photo's and you get a fine. No payment of transponder bill and you get a fine (125Euros apparently!!) Car hire companies will no longer give you a credit card receipt that they tear up at the end!! (if theres no damage to the car). They will ask for the fines AND a hefty admin charge later. VERY expensive and demotivating for tourists. Lets face it Portugal NEEDS the tourist industry.

The problem is that the car-hire companies need to be fitting the transponders asap! I hear that they arent doing this - weird!

Also we've heard that we can get off at the VRSA turnoff (from Spain) without having to pay - but the 125 to eg Faro, is a long drive if one wants to avoid the tolls. Good news is that we can get to many of the places we like in Portugal on the 125. I think the whole of the m-way will be tolled from the turnoff.

If we go to the airport or further - Im OK to pay the toll - if there is a decent system for this.


Crazy! I wonder if there's anybody at the POrtugese tourist aurthority that we can contact?

Jon
Heres what I wrote on another thread....

I still cant figure out how we will pay the tolls - if we rent a car. Surely they must have the transponders fitted??? because most people renting at the airport would use the m-way, even if they are not going to Spain.

Will they give you a reading when you take the car and then one at the end? That would add a lot of time to the checkin/check out process... (and they would need a 'transponder reader' as well! If that exists - I doubt it.) and they will probably want to increase the deposit on the credit card when you book.

Ideally the transponder itself will have a readout saving a lot of hassle. But I wonder if that is the case. Its not so in France, (I think) for their transponder system - and Portugal will probably use a trusted system.

Also if people fly into Seville - they will have problems too. I wonder if the Spanish would have to pay as the x-border payment of tolls/fines may never happen. Its very complicated and needs a good admin system. That's why so far people with non-UK numberplates are getting away with eg Congestion charges and parking tickets... (still) - several million a year it all costs the UK

Finally there are problems in the x-over period, I'm sure that some people will come before the tolls and leave after... The car companies need to put the transponders in now.

IF we buy our own transponder we would need a Portugese bank account as well I suppose.

Looks complicated. Would be interested to know what the car companies will do about all this as for sure they wont be paying others tolls. And some people may get a shock later when they get a bill with fine with the usual extra admin charges added.
I can't understand why they can't accept Euro bank accounts from other E.U. countries. This is precisely what the single currency was for. Do you think an email to www.portuguese-embassy.org asking for clarification as to what a british tourist is to do?
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Old Mar 17th 2011, 12:31 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

ThereĀ“s an article in the Algarve Resident trying to clarify things, it just got me confused. Have a go trying to decipher it: www.algarveresident.com
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Old Mar 17th 2011, 12:35 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

I don't suppose this has anything to do with the 1st of NEXT MONTH???????

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Old Mar 17th 2011, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Originally Posted by Ray-Pauline View Post
I don't suppose this has anything to do with the 1st of NEXT MONTH???????

Ray
I wish it did.....
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Old Mar 17th 2011, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Do I remember something similar last year that got everyone excited???

OK we could always build a tunnel from Esuri... plenty of kit on site!

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Old Mar 17th 2011, 5:48 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Originally Posted by Ray-Pauline View Post
Do I remember something similar last year that got everyone excited???

OK we could always build a tunnel from Esuri... plenty of kit on site!

Ray
That was my initial reaction (the April 1st thing not the tunnel) Unfortunately it was either prescience or gave the Portuguese the idea
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Old Mar 18th 2011, 4:52 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
That was my initial reaction (the April 1st thing not the tunnel) Unfortunately it was either prescience or gave the Portuguese the idea
Yes, Graham G.....it's all YOUR fault !!! x
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Old Mar 18th 2011, 9:54 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Read about it here
This will not go away as it is part of a bigger plan. In the North of Portugal these tolls (or tools) were introduced back in October 2010.
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Old Mar 18th 2011, 10:02 pm
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Default Re: Tool Charges on the A22 to Faro

Good God, I hope we dont get charged by the length, or I will get hammered.
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