jackytoo

I don't know how some of you can be sooo rude and not be ticked off by the moderators. I only had a spat with a poster and got banned for a week. I really can't see anything wrong with putting on a link that was relevant to the question, don't shoot the messenger.

Yes, I think times are still very tough. Tough if your income comes from the UK as the exchange rate is still low, tough as there are not many jobs, virtually none for foreigners. If you read The Olive press there are lots of reports how bad it is for ex-pats. It doesn't matter how bad it is anywhere else, even Zanzibar, the OP asked about Spain

Just thought, what has happened to Mitzi, haven't seen him around for a while?

HBG

True, Jacky, but the OP asked for replies from people living here, and got some useful ones, not silly links to newspaper stories from people in the UK.

About things being tough, here's one from a few hours ago. A well known and respected local interpreter, with a Spanish born son who is trained as a waiter, has had to approach the social services because her son can't find work and hers is diminishing.

That's the reality and the family have lived here for 30 years.

whitelinen

But not for people who have decided to move this year. They know what the exchange rate is now not what it was 10 years ago.

Lushdaddy

Times aren't as bad as people make out. It's the same everywhere. There are jobs around if you want them and some people have been put out of work in the business that they are used to or have been doing for years.
The main thing I see is bars closing. But these are bars that have been hanging on a shoestring for years before the crisis happened. There are far too many and the same with most of the restaurants, too many. The crisis will get rid of the rubbish ones and keep the good ones alive. (Hopefully).
I think that it is fantastic here, am still employed, head above water and keeping the wolf from the door. Looking forward to the sun as the bad weather seemed to bring a lot of people down. I don't see too many people going through tough times, I see a lot of people getting too deep into things they can't handle (like running bars and resaurants) when they haven't done their homework. Then they spend all their savings, go broke hand back keys and move back to the UK blaming the Spanish recession.
I'm happy.

JLFS

most of the closures that expats see ie bars and restaurants are not typical of the type of companies that are going to the wall in Spain.


Most expats only see what there is around them, which is touristy and-or leisure type businesses.

A lot have been hanging on by a thread, and have been opened by folks with little or no experience of catering at all as has been pointed out.


Most come to the conclusion that if the local eateries and drinkeries are not closing then the worst is over.

But there are thousands of jobs in other fields that are going, but seem invisible to lots of expats because most dont know anyone who works or has worked in light industry, power generating plants, manufacturing, agriculture etc,

Thses jobs have a greater number of Spanish and S AM workers that British, so if the same question was asked on the forums that these people frequent, then the answer would be very different from the British expat point of view.

A lot of British also come to Spain with a financial cushion, from the sale of a house etc, and dont usually give up and go back to the UK till thier safety net of savings hits rock bottom.

But a lot of Spanish nationals have not cashed in on British property prices, so the cushion that even a lot of British ex council house owners, has not been available to the local population.


I know that we all have our own relevent opinions, but the question must be asked "is a group of British expats the best people to accurately and objecively answer
a question about Spains economic state?

I personally dont think so.

Lushdaddy

But we have been asked a question so we try to answer it as we see it. As for only seeing bars and eateries etc.. I know plenty of other people in plenty of other fields ranging from sports coaches to plant hire machinery testers and they seem to be ok. I haven't heard of any losing jobs but I'm sure there are some that have for whatever reason.
Who would you rather answer the questions? The politicians? I'm sure you'll get a straight honest answer from them aswell. And they run the country. Chortle.

montgomail

Never far away:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...16&postcount=4

lynnxa

JLFS

my opinion is (and I am not trying to score points on nationality) that if I were given the choice of having to balance the books of a council in Spain or UK, I would choose the UK.

There are so many services that could be cut in the UK.

All the advice centres for immigrants, gays etc,ss claimants etc could be closed, and there are thousands of them.

The translating and printing of forms and bumpf to dozens of languages, and free translating services couldbe stopped.

Day centres for goups such as single mums etc could be closed

Compo payments for tripping over bad pavements could]be stopped and the "you should have looked where you were going" approach used, like in other countries.

All this is before cutting Housing benefit and other benefits.

Just the other day a Somali family was moved to a house costing 8k amonth!!!!!!

I am not saying that all of the above should be cut, I am just pointing out that there is loads of things that can be cut in the UK, whereas if these services do exist in Spain it would be on a much smaller scale.

What I am trying to point out is that a lot of these services do not exist in most other countries, so could be considered, surplus.

So I think it is much easier to cut social amenaties and services where loads exist, that to cut from a very lean and miserly service in the first place.


















1

agoreira

A voice of sanity in the kindergarten! They can be as rude as they like (especially as I'm not reading it) but that's a normal and expected childlike response from the usual contributors. Era de esperar! I've said before the "ignore" button is there for a reason, if you don't want to read my posts, use it! it's that simple. Funnily enough I saw the link in another expat forum, (posted by an expat) and the response was quite different, a much more mature response, but that's not really surprising.

JLFS

You have hit the nail on the head with this remark.

Asking a goup of expats who (these are only possibilites not hard facts folks so dont jump down my throat) may have only rencently arrived, having a financial cushion selling up in the UK etc, is not getting the bigger picture.

The people who have been here years, financial cushion gone, the local Spanish population, who have never left the country in the first place, the immigrants arriving from EE or S Am, who arrived with only a suitcase and not savings and such, they are the ones with more insight as to how Spain is doing.

And before it is poined out to me, I am not a complete idiot, I do know that this is an British expat forum, and the question is being asked to British expats by fellow Brits.

I can only hope that the question is being asked for the sole purpose of debating, and that the posters are not hoping to base a life changing descision on the words of, quite frankly, people in a very priveledged position compared to a large number of Spains population.

HBG

I made a slightly jocular remark about avoiding a local Spanish bar because it's full of unemployed builders, but it's true and I know most of them, hard working people unable to find employment for the first time in their lives.

Another thing that's difficult not to notice is the large number of camposinos now offering their wares at the roadside, I regularly see one old woman sitting in the boiling hot sun all day long trying to sell potatoes and other farm produce.

The local council is doing its best by creating jobs, but the refurbishing of roads, buildings and parks can't go on for too much longer and they must run out of money too at some stage.

In perspective, the downturn is almost world-wide.

cricketman

Lots of Spanish people made a lot of money on the property market too, just like the British did. Property priced trippled in 10 years in Spain and those you played the market well and those in construction made a fortune.

The mistake many of these people had was thinking this was going to continue forever.

Now there are families with pretty ordinary jobs living in houses who were once valued at hundreds of thousands of euros (even millions) who now find themselves with little or no work because of the downturn.

10,000 familes are losing their home ever month in Spain although at the moment, the banks are often not forcing them out.

Times are tough, but sometimes it is because people "over-leveraged" themselves and lived beyond their means in the good times.

There are another group of people who are suffering who did no wrong, but are suffering the consequences of this first group of people's irresponsible actions. e.g. the businesses who are not getting paid by the townhall or the construction company etc.

Oh - and exactly the same situation is happending in the UK, but maybe not to the same extent as in Spain...at the moment

frigilianafreddy

To return to the OP's question.

How can it be cheaper to re-locate to the UK.

1. You have all your removal costs £0000s

2. UK Council tax is about 8 to 10 times the cost of Spain

3. Petrol is 20% to 30% more expensive in the UK.

4. Fuel more expensive in Spain but I need heating for 3 or 4 months a year and no where near as much of it - not 6 or 7 months.

5. Food. About the same but I reckon fish and shellfish are half the price.

6. Wine. Half price in Spain.

7. Meals out. 20% less in Spain

6. Public transport. 50% cheaper in Spain.

So just how does anyone save money by going back to the UK? Obviously I can see the logic if you've been made redundant in Spain, but if you're on a pension of other income how on earth is it cheaper to live in UK?

Yes, of course standard of living has fallen with the 40% fall in the pound and inflation - but it is still cheaper than UK.

jackytoo

If a pensioner is renting in Spain for around £500 pm. they would be better off in the UK as they would get full rent rebate and pay no council tax. Not everyone in Spain has low council tax anyway, can be a 1000 euro on the coast.

I don't think it is cheaper to eat out in Spain. Don't know about public transport, haven't used it in 15 years and hope I never have to

Not sure if the OP was asking about price comparisons, thought it was about the general situation in Spain