The Times

Old Jul 13th 2013, 8:14 am
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Default The Times

A few articles probably prompted by the 300th anniversary of Utrecht

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public...cle3814914.ece

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public...cle3814965.ece

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public...cle3814936.ece

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public...cle3815001.ece

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public...cle3814919.ece
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Old Jul 14th 2013, 5:27 am
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Bit courageous of your Chief Minister to declare that Gibraltar has never actually abided by the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht - could be a stick for Spain to beat you
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Old Jul 14th 2013, 6:34 am
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Originally Posted by MikeJ
Bit courageous of your Chief Minister to declare that Gibraltar has never actually abided by the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht - could be a stick for Spain to beat you
The treaty says that no Jews and no Moors should reside in Gibraltar but that has never been honoured; a Jew was chief minister and now a Moorish lady has become Miss Gibraltar.

Try that in a court today

Of course Spain has abided by the letter of the treaty and still does

Spain's loss of Gibraltar and other Spanish territories in the Mediterranean was resented by the Spanish public and monarchy alike.[87] In 1717 Spanish forces retook Sardinia[84] and in 1718 Sicily,[85] both of which had been ceded to Austria under the Treaty of Utrecht

In January 1727, Spain declared the nullification of the Treaty of Utrecht's provisions relating to Gibraltar on the grounds that Britain had violated its terms by extending Gibraltar's fortifications beyond the permitted limits, allowing Jews and Moors to live there


Of course she forgets that when trying to justify todays harassment, and I mean today when her armed pirates again violated Gib waters, they didn't even have the courage to fly the Spanish ensign.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gibraltar
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Old Jul 14th 2013, 8:08 pm
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Spain has a good record of entering into agreements and then ignoring or rescinding them within their own country, letalone those they made with other states.
The 1492 surrender of the Islamic Emirate of Granada to the Catholic Monarchs is one of the most significant events in Granada's history as it marks the completion of the Reconquista of Al-Andalus. The terms of the surrender, expressed in the Alhambra Decree treaty, explicitly allowed the city's Muslim inhabitants to continue unmolested in the practice of their faith and customs, known as Mudéjar. By 1499, however, Cardinal Francisco Jiménez de Cisneros grew frustrated with the slow pace of the efforts of Granada's first Archbishop, Fernando de Talavera, to convert non-Christians to Christianity and undertook a program of forced Christian baptisms, creating the Converso (convert) class for Muslims and Jews. Cisneros's new tactics, which were a direct violation of the terms of the treaty, provoked an armed Muslim revolt centered in the rural Alpujarras region southwest of the city.

Responding to the rebellion of 1501, the Castilian Crown rescinded the Alhambra Decree treaty, and mandated that Granada's Muslims must convert or emigrate. Under the 1492 Alhambra Decree, Spain's Jewish population, unlike the Muslims, had already been forced to convert under threat of expulsion or even execution, becoming Marranos (meaning "pigs" in Spanish), or Catholics of Jewish descent. Many of the elite Muslim class subsequently emigrated to North Africa. The majority of the Granada's Mudéjar Muslims stayed to convert, however, becoming Moriscos, or Catholics of Moorish descent ("Moor" being equivalent to Muslim). Both populations of conversos were subject to persecution, execution, or exile, and each had cells that practiced their original religion in secrecy.
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Old Jul 14th 2013, 8:11 pm
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Originally Posted by Domino
Spain has a good record of entering into agreements and then ignoring or rescinding them within their own country, letalone those they made with other states.
You mean like building permission?
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Old Jul 14th 2013, 8:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Fredbargate
You mean like building permission?
do I take that as a wind-up comment Fred
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Old Jul 14th 2013, 8:43 pm
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Maybe Fred refers to those many thousands of houses which individuals built after carefully going through all the correct channels and receiving all the correct building permissions only to be told they hadn't got the legal right to build them at all and they'd probably be demolished.
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Old Jul 14th 2013, 9:05 pm
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Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Maybe Fred refers to those many thousands of houses which individuals built after carefully going through all the correct channels and receiving all the correct building permissions only to be told they hadn't got the legal right to build them at all and they'd probably be demolished.
just maybe, especially as that is a current bug of mine, as Fred would be reading my recent posts on the subject. But many actually know what the situation was and believed that it would become legal over time. It hasn't.

the Alhambra Declaration precedes the Utrecht Agreement.
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Old Jul 15th 2013, 1:10 am
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Originally Posted by Domino
the Alhambra Declaration precedes the Utrecht Agreement.
But they are all written on paper, not newspaper to wrap your chips in but toilet paper
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Old Jul 16th 2013, 3:25 am
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Fred, have heard a strong rumour you have a T class submarine visiting for the celebrations - is this correct ??
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Old Jul 16th 2013, 4:00 am
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Originally Posted by Domino
Fred, have heard a strong rumour you have a T class submarine visiting for the celebrations - is this correct ??
Yes we have HMS Tireless the Spaniards best friend.

In 200 she was also in Gib due to a coolant leak ( water non radio active ) which gave our friendly neighbours the opportunity to jump up and down shitting themselves whilst inventing rumours by the minute.

However most of them were totally ignorant of or in denial of the radiation leak from Acerinox at the North end of the Bay.

It gave me great pleasure to say Acerinox whenever a Spaniard said Tireless and then point out the meaning of my statement.

In 1998, the Acerinox factory in Los Barrios, Cadiz melted a capsule of cesium 137 that was in a consignment of scrap metal.[4][5] The radioactive substance was released into the atmosphere and spread over Europe — nuclear authorities in France, Germany, Italy, and Switzerland detected up to 2,400 microbecquerels of ionising radiation in the air, 1,000 times higher than the norm.[6][7][8] Two other factories in Huelva and Badajoz also became contaminated by waste transported to them from Acerinox.[5] During the clean-up, 7,000 metric tons of radioactive waste were dumped in Mendaña marshes, Huelva.
It is still there leaking radiation into the surroundings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acerinox#Accidents

Holiday on the Costa de la Luz and go home glowing in the dark
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Old Jul 16th 2013, 4:05 am
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Off topic again, but has Rajoy gone?????

There has been no frontier queue this afternoon
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Old Jul 16th 2013, 6:38 am
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Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Off topic again, but has Rajoy gone?????

There has been no frontier queue this afternoon
Treaty Holiday ?

any excuse for a holiday in Spain
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Old Jul 16th 2013, 7:12 am
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one of the harpies will probably try to roast me for being off thread but...
what do I care

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/07/16/...00_957275.html

Gibraltar: a 300-year-old debate

`
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Old Jul 16th 2013, 2:04 pm
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Dom, What's a 'harpie'?
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