Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
May 13th 2012, 12:38 pm
#93
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
It's the same everywhere I go.........FULL bars and cafes. It might be that I don't go near tourist resorts!
In any case bars need to understand the change in trend. these days people drink before going out or take their own alcohol with them. It's even popular amongst the 30 and 40 somethings to do the botellon thing. We do it too!
Article in the newspaper today, states that requests for licences to open up terraces has increased significantly in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria. This is partly thanks to the smoking ban, but if the bars were gong bust they wouldn't be opening terraces a great expense!!
I mostly don't see any of the doom and gloom that most of you talk about.
So if you can target a niche market, go fot it, but it must be a bar that offers more than alcohol.
In any case bars need to understand the change in trend. these days people drink before going out or take their own alcohol with them. It's even popular amongst the 30 and 40 somethings to do the botellon thing. We do it too!
Article in the newspaper today, states that requests for licences to open up terraces has increased significantly in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria. This is partly thanks to the smoking ban, but if the bars were gong bust they wouldn't be opening terraces a great expense!!
I mostly don't see any of the doom and gloom that most of you talk about.
So if you can target a niche market, go fot it, but it must be a bar that offers more than alcohol.
Whilst the owners were stating that it was not viable the usual experts said it must pay or they would not be going to the expense, little did they know that a lot of owners were causght by the short and curlies and really did not have much chioce, it was either spend to keep up with the Jonses or go bust.
May 13th 2012, 12:41 pm
#94
Not Banned (yet)
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
In the vein of open discussion, I wonder if this will be the sticking point for the proposed new Euro-Vegas. The casino people want the smoking ban to be dropped for their premises, but I can't see how this could accomplished without cheesing off every bar, disco and restaurant in the country who have to comply with it. Unless the land actually became an independent state like Andorra or Monaco.
May 13th 2012, 1:50 pm
#95
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
I think this report gives a more precise picture of the state of hosteleria, than a few observations from a taburete.
http://www.intereconomia.com/noticia...abaco-20120227
More or less it says that over the last few years over due to the recession and anit tabacco the takings from bares is at the same level as 15 years ago
The article talks about a bar in the centre of Madrid that has shut up shop after 22, obviously it is not a place frequented by English teachers and the like or it would still be carrying on.
It also states that people still go out because it is part of our customs but that the people are spending less when out, so basically there are still bums on seats, but hands not going in pockets as often.
That to me means that bars are suffering despite appearing to the ignorant masses, that they are not in great shape financially, or as in great shape as they once were.
I recently paid 45 euros for a taxi ride after a night out, the couple who were with us were astounded and said that the taxi driver must be "forrado".
I know they guy personally and have seen him sitting in the taxi rank for hours on end, waiting for a fair, not driving around as it is costing too much.
From the outside all looks well, 45e seems like a lot of money to be made from a shortish ride, but these armchair entrepreneurs dont see the down side, only what they see as a spectator through a small window of time,then they spout out about their intimate knowledge of other peoples business, when knowing sod all.
http://www.intereconomia.com/noticia...abaco-20120227
More or less it says that over the last few years over due to the recession and anit tabacco the takings from bares is at the same level as 15 years ago
The article talks about a bar in the centre of Madrid that has shut up shop after 22, obviously it is not a place frequented by English teachers and the like or it would still be carrying on.
It also states that people still go out because it is part of our customs but that the people are spending less when out, so basically there are still bums on seats, but hands not going in pockets as often.
That to me means that bars are suffering despite appearing to the ignorant masses, that they are not in great shape financially, or as in great shape as they once were.
I recently paid 45 euros for a taxi ride after a night out, the couple who were with us were astounded and said that the taxi driver must be "forrado".
I know they guy personally and have seen him sitting in the taxi rank for hours on end, waiting for a fair, not driving around as it is costing too much.
From the outside all looks well, 45e seems like a lot of money to be made from a shortish ride, but these armchair entrepreneurs dont see the down side, only what they see as a spectator through a small window of time,then they spout out about their intimate knowledge of other peoples business, when knowing sod all.
May 13th 2012, 2:12 pm
#96
Not Banned (yet)
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
It's the same everywhere I go.........FULL bars and cafes. It might be that I don't go near tourist resorts!
In any case bars need to understand the change in trend. these days people drink before going out or take their own alcohol with them. It's even popular amongst the 30 and 40 somethings to do the botellon thing. We do it too!
Article in the newspaper today, states that requests for licences to open up terraces has increased significantly in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria. This is partly thanks to the smoking ban, but if the bars were gong bust they wouldn't be opening terraces a great expense!!
I mostly don't see any of the doom and gloom that most of you talk about.
So if you can target a niche market, go fot it, but it must be a bar that offers more than alcohol.
In any case bars need to understand the change in trend. these days people drink before going out or take their own alcohol with them. It's even popular amongst the 30 and 40 somethings to do the botellon thing. We do it too!
Article in the newspaper today, states that requests for licences to open up terraces has increased significantly in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria. This is partly thanks to the smoking ban, but if the bars were gong bust they wouldn't be opening terraces a great expense!!
I mostly don't see any of the doom and gloom that most of you talk about.
So if you can target a niche market, go fot it, but it must be a bar that offers more than alcohol.
The places I saw in Navarra and the Basque country seemed to concentrate on traditional interests - fine wine and pintxos, with perhaps a local game of pelota on the box. Can't say I noticed any customers who were English teachers
But of course Madrid and the north aren't doing as badly as the south under the recession. If HGB is right, and half the bars are empty in a tourist zone, then surely part of the reason is tourists spending less (either on a all-inclusive, or staying at a friends' house?). Will that trade return in the future?
May 13th 2012, 2:14 pm
#97
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
Interesting thing for me is that (again, similar to Madrid last November) that out of the bars I saw in Spain a couple of weeks back, none were empty or seemed down at heel. Whether it was a locals bar or a city centre eating spot in Pamplona, a pintxos bar in San Sebastian or a cafe-bar in Bilbao, they all seemed to have a constant influx of customers entering, and indulging in something whether it be a coffee, a wine and/or some pintxos. They weren't exceptions either, as I passed many other places that seemed busy, often spilling out onto the pavement at the weekend (to be fair there may have been a local fiesta taking place that weekend), and they had customers both on a weekday afternoon or a weekend night. You would have thought it would be the other way around - Spanish places empty, and the resort bars full of Brit tourists. Apparently not, so the comment above about the all-inclusive holidays destroying local businesses may be the root cause.
as you can see from my previous postings I am not in a "touristy" place, it is a Spanish town/village pop 5000, surrounded by the 10m olives. The bars are all Spanish, I and the few other expats around here use some of these bars on an almost daily basis, but it is unlikely they would miss our custom. Some are open at 0700 for breakfast, others don't open until 1300. All get used to varying degrees. Some are literally the front room of the house, others are lockup.
Hopefully the better weather will bring out more visitors but many will not be drinking much as they will be driving unless they are staying locally.
Tourism doesnt, it seems, make a big difference out here.
.
May 13th 2012, 2:21 pm
#98
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
I heard the same argument about going to great expense when the law was brought out that you could allow smoking in a bar, but the place had to be equipped for the purpose with ventilation, enclosed etc.
Whilst the owners were stating that it was not viable the usual experts said it must pay or they would not be going to the expense, little did they know that a lot of owners were causght by the short and curlies and really did not have much chioce, it was either spend to keep up with the Jonses or go bust.
Whilst the owners were stating that it was not viable the usual experts said it must pay or they would not be going to the expense, little did they know that a lot of owners were causght by the short and curlies and really did not have much chioce, it was either spend to keep up with the Jonses or go bust.
the bars knew they were pushing things allowing smoking by 75-100 peeps, the fug filling the room, their success shown by the level of smoke leaking out.
If they had invested in providing extract fans when the times were good they would not be in this situation. They knew they were losing custom because of it.
as a "never smoked" there is nothing worse than waking up in the morning feeling as if I had bathed in cigarette smoke, washing clothes because of the picked up smell. I couldnt make it worse by spilling my drinks all over me.
I and others shouldnt have to put up with it. When working with a heavy smoker I announced I would be bringing in joss sticks - the dept manager banned smoking in the office.
May 13th 2012, 2:27 pm
#99
Not Banned (yet)
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
as you can see from my previous postings I am not in a "touristy" place, it is a Spanish town/village pop 5000, surrounded by the 10m olives. The bars are all Spanish, I and the few other expats around here use some of these bars on an almost daily basis, but it is unlikely they would miss our custom. Some are open at 0700 for breakfast, others don't open until 1300. All get used to varying degrees. Some are literally the front room of the house, others are lockup.
Hopefully the better weather will bring out more visitors but many will not be drinking much as they will be driving unless they are staying locally.
Tourism doesnt, it seems, make a big difference out here.
.
Hopefully the better weather will bring out more visitors but many will not be drinking much as they will be driving unless they are staying locally.
Tourism doesnt, it seems, make a big difference out here.
.
May 13th 2012, 2:37 pm
#100
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Velez-Malaga
Posts: 4,915
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
as you can see from my previous postings I am not in a "touristy" place, it is a Spanish town/village pop 5000, surrounded by the 10m olives. The bars are all Spanish, I and the few other expats around here use some of these bars on an almost daily basis, but it is unlikely they would miss our custom. Some are open at 0700 for breakfast, others don't open until 1300. All get used to varying degrees. Some are literally the front room of the house, others are lockup.
Hopefully the better weather will bring out more visitors but many will not be drinking much as they will be driving unless they are staying locally.
Tourism doesnt, it seems, make a big difference out here.
.
Hopefully the better weather will bring out more visitors but many will not be drinking much as they will be driving unless they are staying locally.
Tourism doesnt, it seems, make a big difference out here.
.
From the admittedly small sample of the observations of forum members, it does seem that the areas more dependent on tourism are the ones suffering most. My town is different again from the places mentioned by Steviedeluxe and Domino, being a large town in Andalucia but with few tourists. Even when we first began coming here 9 years ago, many of them never seemed crowded (except perhaps when there was a big football match on) and they still don't today. Some have changed hands during that 9 years, a few have closed but then a few more completely new ones have opened up in new premises. The biggest difference is the number of bars and restaurants that now have outside seating since the smoking ban was introduced. We don't have any British run bars at all (nor can I think of any run by expats of other nationalities, although I know of one or two run by Spanish people who have previously worked abroad and speak English and/or German). There was a British bar for about 3 years (had 3 different owners in that time) but there were never enough customers to make a go of it. Actually, there is one exception I can think of, and that is kebab/pizza places of which there are now about half a dozen in town, all run by Pakistanis. Up until 2 years ago there were none of those either.
May 13th 2012, 8:31 pm
#101
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
Well yes, I always wonder how the country bars survive, even in the good times. I suppose they have little overheads, are owned by the landlord (thus no prohibitive rent) and it doesn't cost a lot to store the wine. Even in the UK a lot of pubs were hit hard by stricter drink-driving laws and the anti-smoking legislation. Some places survived by concentrating on food, but a lot have gone under. Even here in London I still see pubs changing from being traditional drinking places, to becoming a Thai or Indian eating place (or even shisha smoking places in my neighbourhood). Another (seemingly successful) venture here is converting the pub to a backpackers hostel, with bar and reception downstairs in what used to be the pub. I'm 5 minutes walk from Bell Street (off Edgware Road), and there are 3 pubs there now that do the backpacking thing.
This is how it was in the UK back in the 50's and earlier, although I remember a pub that served from the barrel through a hatch in 1978 - Charlie Wells Bombardier on draft, very nice beer, no chilling (wet towels on top of the barrel !)
heaven help us if they all convert to ethnic restaurants or doner kebab takeaways, how do they all exist ?
and they should be shut on littering grounds just from the flyers they keep pushing thru the letter box.
.
May 13th 2012, 10:18 pm
#102
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
as you can see from my previous postings I am not in a "touristy" place, it is a Spanish town/village pop 5000, surrounded by the 10m olives. The bars are all Spanish, I and the few other expats around here use some of these bars on an almost daily basis, but it is unlikely they would miss our custom. Some are open at 0700 for breakfast, others don't open until 1300. All get used to varying degrees. Some are literally the front room of the house, others are lockup.
Hopefully the better weather will bring out more visitors but many will not be drinking much as they will be driving unless they are staying locally.
Tourism doesnt, it seems, make a big difference out here.
.
Hopefully the better weather will bring out more visitors but many will not be drinking much as they will be driving unless they are staying locally.
Tourism doesnt, it seems, make a big difference out here.
.
A customer who goes in daily, would have a monthly spend on average of about 60 euros minimum, if a dozen or so of your "pandilla" do the same the takings will be down 720 euros a month, if another dozen or so mothers stop going in for a coffee after dropping the kids in school that will be around another 400 euros a month down, if another dozen customers switch from an evening cubata to a beer,another 900 down, and a dozen 2 beer a day guys halve their consumption another 450 a month down.
Small changes in customers habits,which are quite common with people cutting back and there is nearly 2500 down a month, that is the difference between the owner getting a full wage at the end of the month or notl
the downturn does not usually happen overnight, the lesening of customers and smaller dailytake accumulate over weeks and months and the result is they cease trading,
I have givem an example using 48 customers, 24 stop coming in, and 24 cutting down the consumation,
And the effect is great in a small family run bar.
The average customer would not even notice the absence of the customers, and would not be aware of the hardship such a smallish reduction in clientele causes to the owners, hence the comments of "they are seem to be working the same as usual".
Throw in a few TEFL teachers, who figure that it is time to stop fannying about and decide to return to UK and look for a job that can support a family on, and the picture gets even worse.
Alot of business are working well despite the crisis, no doubt about it, but the busier places often suffet too, as a few hundred customers cutting down or not coming in as often would not be noticed either by the bar stool experts either.
That is why so many places are going through the process of getting rid of staff citing financial losses as the reason.
May 14th 2012, 8:33 am
#103
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Disneylandia
Posts: 1,824
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
Saying that the bar would not miss your and the other expats custom if you go in the place almost daily is wrong.
A customer who goes in daily, would have a monthly spend on average of about 60 euros minimum, if a dozen or so of your "pandilla" do the same the takings will be down 720 euros a month, if another dozen or so mothers stop going in for a coffee after dropping the kids in school that will be around another 400 euros a month down, if another dozen customers switch from an evening cubata to a beer,another 900 down, and a dozen 2 beer a day guys halve their consumption another 450 a month down.
Small changes in customers habits,which are quite common with people cutting back and there is nearly 2500 down a month, that is the difference between the owner getting a full wage at the end of the month or notl
the downturn does not usually happen overnight, the lesening of customers and smaller dailytake accumulate over weeks and months and the result is they cease trading,
I have givem an example using 48 customers, 24 stop coming in, and 24 cutting down the consumation,
And the effect is great in a small family run bar.
The average customer would not even notice the absence of the customers, and would not be aware of the hardship such a smallish reduction in clientele causes to the owners, hence the comments of "they are seem to be working the same as usual".
Throw in a few TEFL teachers, who figure that it is time to stop fannying about and decide to return to UK and look for a job that can support a family on, and the picture gets even worse.
Alot of business are working well despite the crisis, no doubt about it, but the busier places often suffet too, as a few hundred customers cutting down or not coming in as often would not be noticed either by the bar stool experts either.
That is why so many places are going through the process of getting rid of staff citing financial losses as the reason.
A customer who goes in daily, would have a monthly spend on average of about 60 euros minimum, if a dozen or so of your "pandilla" do the same the takings will be down 720 euros a month, if another dozen or so mothers stop going in for a coffee after dropping the kids in school that will be around another 400 euros a month down, if another dozen customers switch from an evening cubata to a beer,another 900 down, and a dozen 2 beer a day guys halve their consumption another 450 a month down.
Small changes in customers habits,which are quite common with people cutting back and there is nearly 2500 down a month, that is the difference between the owner getting a full wage at the end of the month or notl
the downturn does not usually happen overnight, the lesening of customers and smaller dailytake accumulate over weeks and months and the result is they cease trading,
I have givem an example using 48 customers, 24 stop coming in, and 24 cutting down the consumation,
And the effect is great in a small family run bar.
The average customer would not even notice the absence of the customers, and would not be aware of the hardship such a smallish reduction in clientele causes to the owners, hence the comments of "they are seem to be working the same as usual".
Throw in a few TEFL teachers, who figure that it is time to stop fannying about and decide to return to UK and look for a job that can support a family on, and the picture gets even worse.
Alot of business are working well despite the crisis, no doubt about it, but the busier places often suffet too, as a few hundred customers cutting down or not coming in as often would not be noticed either by the bar stool experts either.
That is why so many places are going through the process of getting rid of staff citing financial losses as the reason.
Love this post. I'm in a completely different place, but observations/situations very similar here in Italy.2 years ago my 'local' bar changed hands in February; and the new management increased the table prices by about 50%. Myself I had been a regular customer for about 15 years, spending on average maybe 8 - 10 eurines a week, mainly on coffee. When I objected to the new charge I was bluntly told ' that's how it is, take it or leave it'. I left it. Evidently so did many others. They closed down in January this year, and haven't reopened.
'luego,
'o nonno
May 14th 2012, 9:34 am
#104
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
From the admittedly small sample of the observations of forum members, it does seem that the areas more dependent on tourism are the ones suffering most. My town is different again from the places mentioned by Steviedeluxe and Domino, being a large town in Andalucia but with few tourists. Even when we first began coming here 9 years ago, many of them never seemed crowded (except perhaps when there was a big football match on) and they still don't today. Some have changed hands during that 9 years, a few have closed but then a few more completely new ones have opened up in new premises. The biggest difference is the number of bars and restaurants that now have outside seating since the smoking ban was introduced. We don't have any British run bars at all (nor can I think of any run by expats of other nationalities, although I know of one or two run by Spanish people who have previously worked abroad and speak English and/or German). There was a British bar for about 3 years (had 3 different owners in that time) but there were never enough customers to make a go of it. Actually, there is one exception I can think of, and that is kebab/pizza places of which there are now about half a dozen in town, all run by Pakistanis. Up until 2 years ago there were none of those either.
I would estimate there are about 80 Spanish bars in the 4 nearby pueblos and as far as I can see life goes on as normal.
There's only a fine sprinkling of expats spread throughout the whole area and a single English run bar, which is the only one I know of thats changed hands in recent years.
The previous Landlord was obviously not cut out for the job, but the present owners seem to be doing reasonably well.
Jun 30th 2012, 3:55 am
#105
Banned
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18
Re: Thinking of opening a bar in Tenerife.
Hello everyone!
Id like some advise... from people that are likely to tell me the truth - pitfalls - and "gotch's" that I may run into...
OK - about me.
Im an IT professional of nearly 20 years. Have always worked in IT... and it has usually paid me well.
However the area of IT I specialize in is a very narrow field - and it's collapsing. Last year I lost my job - and since then Iv been unable to find satisfactory work.
So... things are getting serious now. Going to have to sell the house to pay off debtors. That cant be helped. Even if I found a new well paid job today - that would still likely happen.
So...
After the sale of the house - and repayment to my debtors... I will still have a tidy sum of money left.
I could use this to purchase/lease a bar in Tenerife.
I am focusing on Tenerife as it is more of an all year round destination than other holiday locations - and I think I have identified a niche in the market that I could exploit.
Think: Internet bar with a difference. It would be popular with young people... and Id have no difficulty in setting up the internet service and server myself that would be needed.
Anyway... lets not get bogged down in the details of WHAT Im thinking of doing... Im much more interested in advise relating how best to do this.
Iv seen agencies offering businesses for sale in Tenerife... but have no idea how reputable they are. Any advise there is welcome...
What legal processes would I need to go through?
I assume Id need an accountant for the business - any rough guesses on costs and my liability?
What is a "reasonable" price to pay for a business in Tenerife? I realize that current business throughput will have a huge impact on that one...
Eligilabity to work... Tenerife isnt in the EU. Does this affect me? I also might be setting this up with a partner from the USA. Is that a problem? Are non-EU residents allowed to live and work there?
I have no health issues... but who knows. One day something may happen... If I am living and working in Tenerife - and contributing to their tax - I assume I will be entitled to health care. Is this correct?
Supply chain. Am I likely to be ripped off from suppliers and distributors? How would I know? Other bar operators are unlikely to tell me what they pay bottom line for consumables (drinks and food). How should I go about this?
And...
Any other concerns or suggestions you guys think I should look into.. or be aware of... will be gratefully received!
Thanks to you all in advance
Id like some advise... from people that are likely to tell me the truth - pitfalls - and "gotch's" that I may run into...
OK - about me.
Im an IT professional of nearly 20 years. Have always worked in IT... and it has usually paid me well.
However the area of IT I specialize in is a very narrow field - and it's collapsing. Last year I lost my job - and since then Iv been unable to find satisfactory work.
So... things are getting serious now. Going to have to sell the house to pay off debtors. That cant be helped. Even if I found a new well paid job today - that would still likely happen.
So...
After the sale of the house - and repayment to my debtors... I will still have a tidy sum of money left.
I could use this to purchase/lease a bar in Tenerife.
I am focusing on Tenerife as it is more of an all year round destination than other holiday locations - and I think I have identified a niche in the market that I could exploit.
Think: Internet bar with a difference. It would be popular with young people... and Id have no difficulty in setting up the internet service and server myself that would be needed.
Anyway... lets not get bogged down in the details of WHAT Im thinking of doing... Im much more interested in advise relating how best to do this.
Iv seen agencies offering businesses for sale in Tenerife... but have no idea how reputable they are. Any advise there is welcome...
What legal processes would I need to go through?
I assume Id need an accountant for the business - any rough guesses on costs and my liability?
What is a "reasonable" price to pay for a business in Tenerife? I realize that current business throughput will have a huge impact on that one...
Eligilabity to work... Tenerife isnt in the EU. Does this affect me? I also might be setting this up with a partner from the USA. Is that a problem? Are non-EU residents allowed to live and work there?
I have no health issues... but who knows. One day something may happen... If I am living and working in Tenerife - and contributing to their tax - I assume I will be entitled to health care. Is this correct?
Supply chain. Am I likely to be ripped off from suppliers and distributors? How would I know? Other bar operators are unlikely to tell me what they pay bottom line for consumables (drinks and food). How should I go about this?
And...
Any other concerns or suggestions you guys think I should look into.. or be aware of... will be gratefully received!
Thanks to you all in advance
I notice you didn't let us know whether you decided to come here or not .. my advice ... if you do .. consider ... you're going to have to spend a lot of time with the types on these pages.