welshyokel

Hi, there seems to be quite a large community on these forums and I'm hoping to gain some advice.

My wife and I are in our 50s and both retired. We have the opportunity to purchase a house in Spain next year from people we know in the UK. We have stayed at the house several times in the last three years and love the house, the village and Andalucia.

I have just started exploring the process for moving to Spain and thought I might gain some useful insight from you guys who have already done it. The thought of living in Spain really appeals to us, we are debt free, with a lot of equity in our Uk home. As I see it we have two choices

1. Sell up and buy the house in Spain and have a good sum in the bank behind us (our Uk home is 3 times the value of the house in Spain) and become a spanish resident.

2. Buy a small place in the Uk and remain tax resident in the UK and spend only 6 months a year in Spain.

Selling up completely would give us more money in the bank but I have concerns about cutting all ties in the UK and becoming a Spanish resident. This is where i hoped I could benefit from your experience.

- my gut feel after an initial look is that my tax liability in Spain would be higher than in the UK. We live comfortably on my company pension in the UK. How did others find the change between the two countries in terms of tax?

- in the UK I do not pay NI on my pension but I am not sure if I would be liable to social security in Spain. Is social security payable against pensionable income?

- in the uk I have no private healthcare, happy to rely on the NHS. Would that be advisable in Spain or would it be sensible to take out private health insurance?

These are the first questions that came to mind when I started looking and I'm sure there will be many more. Apologies for the length of this post and for those who have taken the time to read it and are willing to reply thank you very much.

Rosemary

As Concierge for the Spanish section of BE I would like to say hello and welcome.

BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

bigglesworth

Actually, welshyokel you may have another choice.
Sell the house in the UK and buy a smaller one. Rent it out. Use the rent to pay the rent on somewhere in Spain. Check out your areas. (And whether you CAN live abroad- not all can). Move around till you find where you like. If necessary - keep moving (but I would say that wouldn't I)
But above all, keep the place in the UK until you are SURE you want to leave. Many have real difficulty in returning.

Leper

OK, if you sell up and buy in Spain I would say that you have made the mistake of your life. Good officers always plan a dignified retreat where necessary.

Renting in Spain works out @ around €500 per month (+ electricity charges) for a decent apartment of 2 bedrooms in a good location. You could get a deal for a lesser amount for six consequetive months October - March.

If you are not looking for work this is a viable option.

If you buy a place in Spain you could be trapped.

bob_bob

House prices are falling in Spain and will continue to as Spain goes into a double dip recession so buying is a bad idea, you'll end up with a house that's loosing value and won't sell.

Downsize in the UK and rent in Spain, remember cool/cold/wet winters on the Spanish mainland, have you thought about the Canary Isles? warm all year round.

HBG

Although it affects me adversely, I have to say that buying in Spain at this time would be foolish. The Spanish property market has fallen drastically for the past four years and all informed opinion points to further falls in the years to come.

But don't let it put you off, batten down the hatches in the UK and come to try this marvellous country for the next year, starting now or as soon as you can. Renting is easy and you don't need to bother with any bureaucratic nonsense at this stage. Medical insurance is about the only thing you would need for peace of mind.

You can experience the hot summer in Andalucia, followed by a cold winter, but both are easily compensated for with modern appliances.

Don't sell anything and don't buy anything, give it at least a year to see if you want to join the million of us who already enjoy our lives in the sun. I bet you will.

Countryboy1

Don't bother. Downsize your house in the UK and use any resulting money to have fabulous holidays around in world in rental properties. See the world and enjoy it without the hassle of taxes, property problems etc. Leave all problems to others. Just enjoy life.

Jeanie27

Actually, I like option 2.

There are a lot of people, for a lotof different reasons, who will tell you to save your money. However, we all bought in Spain to follow a dream. For some it worked, for others it didn't. You will never know until you try. If you have the chance to keep a foot in the UK while trying then good luck to you. We have done it and haven't regretted it. We have a house in the UK and a house in Spain. We love both.

It is so difficult to give advice because we are all so different - we aren't all wanting the same. It's a case of 'suck it and see' but at the same time keeping firmly grounded. You could definatly lose money if you buy in Spain as an investement but if you are in a position to be able to buy and sit it out then you should be ok.

It's horses for courses. You could end up on the right side. It all depends on what your parameters are to start with.

johnnyone

If you do buy the house how is it being valued?
From what I can see the asking prices bear no resemblance to the selling prices, so you need to ensure any valuation relates to likely selling price not by an Agents the initial valuation.
As other posters have said the market is not very stable and continue to fall. Location means everything and I do not think village houses in Andalucia are considered to fall into the good location category(as an investment).

Ultimately you are making a lifestyle choice. Try to ensure that you make the right call and if you get it wrong be prepared to admit it and have a plan B in place and that probably means retaining a property in the UK.

The alternative to buying the property would be to initially rent it from your friends on the understanding that you have the option to buy at a pre-agreed price sometime in the future eg 6-12 months. This would give you the chance to be sure it's the place for you and afford you some protection from the vagaries of the market.
Good luck.

sujee

We made the move a month ago and although it's been a very steep learning curve we are very happy we did. We didn't have the option of renting our UK house so sold up and had plenty of equity to buy a small finca. We have therefore reduced our monthly outgoings and are spending a LOT less than we did in UK. We love our small house we love our views we love the Spanish way of life. Yes its is early days and we don't need to work as we have pensions.

I wouldn't feel qualified to give advice as we haven't been here long enough but we have no regrets apart from missing the central heating.

If you decide to go ahead, do get good Spanish legal advice. We had a gem of gestor who spoke perfect English and made our move very easy. Explaining how Spanish bureaucracy worked and lead us gently through it all. She also negotiated a deal with the bank and saved us several hundred euros by getting us a low fixed rate for the bank draft. (unlike UK £25 flat fee, in Spain you pay a % of the amount of the draft.)

Listen to all the advice on the forum. We read the forum for a couple of months and we did learn a lot. We also learned who to listen to as genuinely helpful and who to treat with caution. Once I registered and was able to ask advice I knew who to take seriously.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do and feel free to pm me if I can help with newbie stuff.

HBG

One of the reasons I hinted at coming over as soon as possible, is that I've observed many would-be expats researching their move to the nth degree, so much so that it eventually put them off altogether.

There are some true horror stories of expats queuing for hours to be faced with a thoroughly nasty Spanish official who can reduce a new expat to tears. More horror stories about bringing your UK car over, the list goes on.

You don't have to worry about any of that, a small payment to a recommended local Gestor will sort it all out for you, when the time is right.

And as a previous poster said, we used to all come over and buy a house immediately. But times have changed and it is no longer a good idea.

But coming to live in the sun still is.

Rambling Rose

As no-one has addressed health care yet - you should know that in your 50's you will not be eligible for free care in the spanish system in the long term. I believe if you have paid enough contributions you can get cover for the first couple of years but after that unless you are receiving some kind of state pension you will lose it. As the UK NHS is a residence based system you would also lose your entitlement to cover their if you sell up completely and no longer have a permanent UK address.
Spain's system is based on contributions not residence soyou choices are to pay into the spanish healthcare system or take out private insurance.
I am also in my 50's and took out a private policy with Sanitas as it was cheaper than paying into the spanish system. My policy has something called 'co-payments' which means I pay a token sum every time I visit the doctors or a specialist. I've only been to the doctors once in nearly 5 years - it cost me 15 euros. The annual policy is about 800.
Some people take the risk and do nothing, paying to see a doctor privately if they need to. However, if you suddenly (heaven forbid) found you had a serious illness that needed extensive treatment which costs thousands you could be in real trouble.
Whilst we love it here, and are glad we came, there have been a lot of unanticipated downsides and we have talked about returning to the UK at some point in the future. So I think those who say keep a place to go back to have got it right. Best of luck.
PS this is a useful link: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/BritonsLivingAbroad/index.htm[/url]

Rosemary

I think that there are a great deal of people who do this and it is so stupid. I met one couple who pretended that they were visiting the daughter and used the EHIC card when he was diagnosed with cancer. Not only were they nervous and anxious about his treatment but also about being found out so their stay in the hospital was doubley traumatic for them.

We are sticklers for being legal and cannot see the point of putting yourself through any extra traumma.

Rosemary

Rambling Rose

I agree and why should the spanish pay for us to be treated if we have never paid into their system? I've heard of people getting away with it, if they just need a 'one-off' consultation but if you need a course of treatment for something like cancer you can't really pretend you are just here on holiday.
I think people have trouble understanding that they can't just go back to the UK and get treated on the NHS if they don't live there anymore. There might seem more of a case for this if you've paid NI all your life and then retired out here but thats not how it works. Interestingly it does for nationals of some countries. Our Dutch neighbours go back to the Netherlands for some medical treatment which they get free there because of their past contributions.
Wouldn't it be much simpler if it was the same all over the EU? (wait for the howls of protest )

JLFS

Yes it would be simpler and better, but it will never happen, because ifyou make all counties comply with health, then the next would be comply with benefits etc.

Spain would not and could not afford to give the generous benefits for unemployed that the UK have, and last for life, in Spain you only get out what you pay in and it is limited to a maximum of 2 years dole.

But I agree with you in principle and it would be fairer.