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They're all useless.

They're all useless.

Old Nov 9th 2011, 4:44 pm
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by bil
When you see the risks some of these people take to get into the uK, you have to admire their guts.

I do agree tho, that immigrant rules have been stupidly soft all these years, and it's scant wonder that people in the UK get pissed off over the way they are treated in comparison to said immigrants.
bil, I have to agree the risks some have taken to get to the UK are horrendous, and they sell their souls, and the souls of their wives, children and whole family to end up dying on Morecombe Sands.

Sometimes the illegal route isnt a nice cabin on a liner, more a stinky leaking hold on a fishing smack or the wheel housing of a 747, or next to the transmission of an HGV. It takes guts and how many of us softies would ever even consider, let alone do.

But, as always there is a But, there are rules that have to be maintained, they apply to all, not just the odd one or two. We have to be open about it, we have to apply the rules responsibly, it is only a small country, punching above its weight, but the streets have never been paved with gold.

Alternatively open the borders and as they come in give them an NI no, JSA form and keys to a house. Some areas are already reminiscent of Soweto, houses full to capacity, rubbish dumped in the garden, increase in TB largest for decades, also other diseases we havent had for decades.

Sorry to you people out there with the fluffy bunnies who want to maintain open doors - please leave yours open when you go to work, I am sure you will meet someone from somewhere.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 4:48 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by Domino
bil, I have to agree the risks some have taken to get to the UK are horrendous, and they sell their souls, and the souls of their wives, children and whole family to end up dying on Morecombe Sands.

Sometimes the illegal route isnt a nice cabin on a liner, more a stinky leaking hold on a fishing smack or the wheel housing of a 747, or next to the transmission of an HGV. It takes guts and how many of us softies would ever even consider, let alone do.

But, as always there is a But, there are rules that have to be maintained, they apply to all, not just the odd one or two. We have to be open about it, we have to apply the rules responsibly, it is only a small country, punching above its weight, but the streets have never been paved with gold.

Alternatively open the borders and as they come in give them an NI no, JSA form and keys to a house. Some areas are already reminiscent of Soweto, houses full to capacity, rubbish dumped in the garden, increase in TB largest for decades, also other diseases we havent had for decades.

Sorry to you people out there with the fluffy bunnies who want to maintain open doors - please leave yours open when you go to work, I am sure you will meet someone from somewhere.
You know me, I believe in giving the devil his due. Plus, we need immigrants just so long as people in the UK won't do all the jobs on offer. Personally I'd agree to people being long term unemployed if they agree to be sterilised. That would at least keep the problem down a bit. It does seem a tad insane that we bring in people to do the work and then pay our own citizens to not do the work. Cheaper by far to pay the indigents more, in the long run.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 4:56 pm
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by bil
You know me, I believe in giving the devil his due. Plus, we need immigrants just so long as people in the UK won't do all the jobs on offer. Personally I'd agree to people being long term unemployed if they agree to be sterilised. That would at least keep the problem down a bit. It does seem a tad insane that we bring in people to do the work and then pay our own citizens to not do the work. Cheaper by far to pay the indigents more, in the long run.
cant do it bil, too radical and we would have to turn more people away at our borders.
but then the shout for English jobs for English people didnt last long.

Remember that LB Westminster was caught employing illegals as traffic wardens.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 5:06 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

The fact that we still have so many able ppl who are unwilling to work and can afford not to do so simply emphasises what a Nanny state the UK has become and why so many would be immigrants risk their necks to reach our shores.
Why not gradually reduce the benefits of those unwilling to work to a point where it's in their own best interests to do so ?
I doubt very much they'd continue to refuse work to a point where they begin to feel hunger pangs.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 5:11 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
The fact that we still have so many able ppl who are unwilling to work and can afford not to do so simply emphasises what a Nanny state the UK has become and why so many would be immigrants risk their necks to reach our shores.
Why not gradually reduce the benefits of those unwilling to work to a point where it's in their own best interests to do so ?
I doubt very much they'd continue to refuse work to a point where they begin to feel hunger pangs.
I think that when times are good, we can turn more of a blind eye towards the workshy, but we keep coming back to this one, insurmountable problem.

If we repatriated all the immigrants, cut benefits to zero, there still wouldn't be enough jobs to go around, so what do we do with them then?

We have, IMO just got to realise that we are dommed to have a lot of people stitting on their arses doing nothing for the forseeable future, and we need a strategy to deal with it.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:00 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

It's a rapidly changing increasingly mechanised world in which we live and it's therefore inevitable that problems will continue to occur regarding a shortage of decent jobs in most Western countries.
However travelling around the EU, I see nowhere where the problem of those unwilling to work is so obvious as in the UK.
There are jobs and jobs and many of those unable to get a decent permanent position could still be made to justify their benefits by doing environmentally friendly jobs such as cleaning up the cities and the countryside making it a more pleasant world to live in for all concerned.
I would say the possibilities are almost endless and beneficial to everyone.
There is a certain amount of this beginning to happen in the UK, but I seem to see much more throughout other EU countries and I think much of it is down to ensuring that it's very unprofitable apart from surely sole destroying for ppl.to sit around all day doing nothing.

I must have been brought up with the Protestant work ethic, possibly without being fully aware of it at the time.
Although I've been virtually retired for many years and nothing like as fit as I once was, I still can't sit around relaxing for any great time and feel the need to achieve at least something positive no matter how tiny it may be now, with every single day that passes.
Wether or not it's that old guilty concience from the so-called protestant work ethic I know not, but what I do know is that I find it extremely rewarding and self satisfying, as against just lounging about all day achieving absolutely nowt.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:15 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
It's a rapidly changing increasingly mechanised world in which we live and it's therefore inevitable that problems will continue to occur regarding a shortage of decent jobs in most Western countries.
However travelling around the EU, I see nowhere where the problem of those unwilling to work is so obvious as in the UK.
There are jobs and jobs and many of those unable to get a decent permanent position could still be made to justify their benefits by doing environmentally friendly jobs such as cleaning up the cities and the countryside making it a more pleasant world to live in for all concerned.
I would say the possibilities are almost endless and beneficial to everyone.
There is a certain amount of this beginning to happen in the UK, but I seem to see much more throughout other EU countries and I think much of it is down to ensuring that it's very unprofitable apart from surely sole destroying for ppl.to sit around all day doing nothing.

I must have been brought up with the Protestant work ethic, possibly without being fully aware of it at the time.
Although I've been virtually retired for many years and nothing like as fit as I once was, I still can't sit around relaxing for any great time and feel the need to achieve at least something positive no matter how tiny it may be now, with every single day that passes.
Wether or not it's that old guilty concience from the so-called protestant work ethic I know not, but what I do know is that I find it extremely rewarding and self satisfying, as against just lounging about all day achieving absolutely nowt.
Personally I do enjoy a bit of lounging.......
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:17 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by bil
Personally I do enjoy a bit of lounging.......
So do I but just a bit, then I get the urge to be up and at it.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:19 pm
  #39  
 
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Default Re: They're all useless.

To be fair to some unemployed,
The Government makes rules and companies find loopholes to get around them.

Too many Major stores and companies only take on part time staff or agency workers to save money.

The Uk has become full of employment agencies. Agency workers, many (not all) have no contracts and can be simply told we don't need you tomorrow and that's their job gone. No holiday pay, sick or NI to pay.

I wonder if this is why many don't want to work for them, unsociable hours at normal rates isn't fair either. I believe it when they say theres jobs out there, I think they are mostly this type.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:26 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

We haven't just become a nannny state we've also become a nation of "soft arses" This problem isn't new, 15 years ago I could hardly find English kids to wash up and when I diid they had no idea how to clean a pan or scrub a roasting tray. So I employed mainly Brazillians.

THe excuses from the English ranged from I can't work Friday it's my mum's boyfriends 38th Birthday or it's some Gran's whatever or blah blah blah. One Mother asked me if I could give her two boys a saturday job, something like breaking up boxes and sweeping the yards because SHE didn't want them to wash up. One woman confronted me at 9.00 in the morning saying the way I had treated her son the night before was totally unacceptable, making him wash up till 11.00 without even a dishwasher. When I showed her the dishwasher and told her that her precious son had spent half the night texting friends, going out for a cigarette etc she still kept having a go at me, she told me her son didn't smoke and that he is a conscientious young man etc etc. So who do I blame, that generation of Parents who think the sun shines out of their precious kids arses. Soft Arse Parents Soft Arse Kids. Give me immigrant labour anytoday
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:28 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by anonimouse
To be fair to some unemployed,
The Government makes rules and companies find loopholes to get around them.

Too many Major stores and companies only take on part time staff or agency workers to save money.

The Uk has become full of employment agencies. Agency workers, many (not all) have no contracts and can be simply told we don't need you tomorrow and that's their job gone. No holiday pay, sick or NI to pay.

I wonder if this is why many don't want to work for them, unsociable hours at normal rates isn't fair either. I believe it when they say theres jobs out there, I think they are mostly this type.
Just who invented that stupid phrase "unsociable hours"
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:34 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by stuboy
Just who invented that stupid phrase "unsociable hours"
Certainly not me, every hour was the same in my job, day or night weekends and bank holidays.
If a job had to be done, it had to be done and no extra rewards either.
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:44 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Just a quickie, should it not be "unsocial" hours? or are both in common usage?
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 6:47 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Jesus! Are there any corners left around here to piss in?
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Old Nov 9th 2011, 7:06 pm
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Default Re: They're all useless.

Originally Posted by JLFS
Just a quickie, should it not be "unsocial" hours? or are both in common usage?
Although there is some overlap in the usage, You are in fact right, I stand corrected.
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