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-   -   Theoretical question on retiring early (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/theoretical-question-retiring-early-908647/)

rose2015 Jan 31st 2018 10:40 am

Theoretical question on retiring early
 
Does anyone know how this works. We have been residents in Spain for fourteen years and husband has always been autonomo and paid into the system always.

If he decided to retire in around two and half years time (he would be 59) would we still get free state health treatment also would I. I would be 58.

We are in Cadiz province. We would be selling a rental property to finance us until pensions start.

spainrico Jan 31st 2018 2:40 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 
I do not think you would still have health coverage because of course the Spanish system is based on contributions and not residency. So if you stop making contributions then I think your cover would cease.

I would talk to your local INSS office.

However, if you have been resident since before 24th April 2012 you may be entitled to claim health cover based on a ruling that gave access to long-term residents under an EU ruling. PM me for more.

Loafing Along Jan 31st 2018 3:31 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 

Originally Posted by rose2015 (Post 12431302)
Does anyone know how this works. We have been residents in Spain for fourteen years and husband has always been autonomo and paid into the system always.

If he decided to retire in around two and half years time (he would be 59) would we still get free state health treatment also would I. I would be 58.

We are in Cadiz province. We would be selling a rental property to finance us until pensions start.

The minimum contribution period for a Spanish pension is fifteen years and the minimum retirement age is 65 yrs and 6 months. ( 2018 retirees ). One thing he may be able to claim , if he has contributed for fourteen years is unemployment benefit for up to two years. It is definitely worth investigating this as he is below the official retirement age. During this period he would still be covered by the Social Security for health treatment. If you are registered as a dependent you should receive the same coverage.

That would still leave a gap until the official retirement age but a slightly shorter one.

spainrico Jan 31st 2018 3:57 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 
I do not think unemployment benefit is payable if you voluntarily give up working, but need to check with INSS.

Loafing Along Jan 31st 2018 4:02 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 

Originally Posted by spainrico (Post 12431628)
I do not think unemployment benefit is payable if you voluntarily give up working, but need to check with INSS.

Yes for an "Autonomo" it is related to stopping working ( Cese de Actividad), not an easy process but it is available

rose2015 Jan 31st 2018 5:12 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 
We dont want unemployment benefit. We thought they would add the years together contributed in each country for the pensions. He worked in the UK from 16 to 41 years of age. He will wait until he is 65 to get his state pension. We just wondered if we were still covered for state health cover as we have lived here since 2003 He will have paid into the system for around 17 years in Spain in around two and a half to three years time.

lurchio Jan 31st 2018 5:32 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 
As stated, if you were resident here before April 2012, you can get health cover for free! And that aspect has no limitations as to current age or employment status. You stated 2003, so eligible. Good luck, best enquire at the INSS office to start the ball rolling.

rose2015 Jan 31st 2018 5:34 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 

Originally Posted by lurchio (Post 12431745)
As stated, if you were resident here before April 2012, you can get health cover for free! And that aspect has no limitations as to current age or employment status. You stated 2003, so eligible. Good luck, best enquire at the INSS office to start the ball rolling.

Yes thank you lurchio and yes we do need to speak with our local INSS office.

Loafing Along Jan 31st 2018 5:48 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 

Originally Posted by rose2015 (Post 12431721)
We dont want unemployment benefit. We thought they would add the years together contributed in each country for the pensions. He worked in the UK from 16 to 41 years of age. He will wait until he is 65 to get his state pension. We just wondered if we were still covered for state health cover as we have lived here since 2003 He will have paid into the system for around 17 years in Spain in around two and a half to three years time.

No they do not add the years together, each country is treated separately.

CapnBilly Jan 31st 2018 6:25 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 

Originally Posted by Loafing Along (Post 12431759)
No they do not add the years together, each country is treated separately.

I’m afraid this is incorrect.

Under the EU Social Coordination Directive they add your contribution years in both countries, upto the maximum number of years required for a full pension. This provides a theoretical pension, which is the amount you would receive if all your contributions were in one county. They then pay you the proportional amount. They also do the same in the UK.

However, because a UK pension is based on a fixed amount per year, then you receive the same amount as you would based in your contribution years. Spain however is different, because the pension is based on your contribution base amount, and the more years you have the higher the pensionable amount.

You should apply in the last place you worked for your state pension ( so Spain in your case), and they should arrange for your UK pension as well.

Having said all that, this assumes there are no changes post Brexit. IMHO I would not expect this to change, especially in respect of contribution years built up before Brexit.

Loafing Along Jan 31st 2018 7:32 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 

Originally Posted by CapnBilly (Post 12431794)
I’m afraid this is incorrect.

Under the EU Social Coordination Directive they add your contribution years in both countries, upto the maximum number of years required for a full pension. This provides a theoretical pension, which is the amount you would receive if all your contributions were in one county. They then pay you the proportional amount. They also do the same in the UK.

However, because a UK pension is based on a fixed amount per year, then you receive the same amount as you would based in your contribution years. Spain however is different, because the pension is based on your contribution base amount, and the more years you have the higher the pensionable amount.

You should apply in the last place you worked for your state pension ( so Spain in your case), and they should arrange for your UK pension as well.

Having said all that, this assumes there are no changes post Brexit. IMHO I would not expect this to change, especially in respect of contribution years built up before Brexit.

I think we are saying the same thing in a different way, basically I agree with what you said, your explanation is more precise - as a Spanish resident the Spanish Social Security will coordinate all your potential "Old Age" pensions whatever their source but they will be calculated based on the national critieria of the country where the contributions were made and then each country will pay the pension separately. Thus it is possible to have a UK State pension, a Spanish pension and a pension from a third or fourth country if your contribution in those countries met their basic criteria

CapnBilly Jan 31st 2018 9:14 pm

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 

Originally Posted by Loafing Along (Post 12431850)
I think we are saying the same thing in a different way, basically I agree with what you said, your explanation is more precise - as a Spanish resident the Spanish Social Security will coordinate all your potential "Old Age" pensions whatever their source but they will be calculated based on the national critieria of the country where the contributions were made and then each country will pay the pension separately. Thus it is possible to have a UK State pension, a Spanish pension and a pension from a third or fourth country if your contribution in those countries met their basic criteria

It is possible to receive a pension in Spain with less than 15 years, providing you have contributions in the UK (or EU/EAA), but the way it is calculated in Spain means you may receive more than you would based on your contributions only in Spain. So, it possible to receive a pension even with 2 years contributions, providing your combined contributions exceed 15 years.

In addition, you may also receive a supplementary pension if the totals you receive does not exceed the minimum amount. However, if you do receive this, then it can and will be adjusted for exchange rate differences.

spainrico Feb 1st 2018 6:28 am

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 
I do not think his pension age is 65 it has moved to at least 66, check UK DWP site.

jimenato Feb 1st 2018 10:34 am

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 

Originally Posted by lurchio (Post 12431745)
As stated, if you were resident here before April 2012, you can get health cover for free! And that aspect has no limitations as to current age or employment status. You stated 2003, so eligible. Good luck, best enquire at the INSS office to start the ball rolling.

Is that quite new? When we ceased autonomo in 2012 we definitely lost health cover and had to resort to 'sin recursos'.

spainrico Feb 1st 2018 10:37 am

Re: Theoretical question on retiring early
 
No it is not new but not widely known. It is how I gain my health care in Spain, if you want more detail PM me.


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