bobd22

We are trying to get a tax residency certificate for my wife from the online hacienda system. I did mine some time back in order to submit a double taxation treaty form to HMRC, mine was obtained without issue. We are now going to submit a double tax treaty form for my wife has she is now in receipt of her UK state pension and we want that untaxed in UK for tax in Spain. We have submitted tax returns for her for the past 2 years all be it they were negative income as she had no income and lived off savings. The hacienda system won't issue the tax residency certificate for some reason? Possibly because although she's submitted tax returns no tax has been paid? We have appealed on their system and sent copies of her Spanish tax returns but so far not heard anything back. Just wondering if anyone else has had this issue and got any suggestions? We just want her state pension untaxed in UK for declaration in Spain. We do have to submit UK tax returns as we rent a property out in the UK .
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Barriej

Yep we had the same issue with my wife.
But we were told by hacienda that the reason was they didn't believe she lived here.
The accountant asked her to provide three months bank statements and we then got both certs.

bobd22

Thanks for that we also attached her bank account certificate so will have to see what happens. They say attach utility bills but problem is when we bought the house 16 years ago everything was set up by solicitor in my name.

Listen Very Carefully

I know that it is too late now for the OP but I have always told people to have at least one Utility in each others names-so hopefully that will help others in the future

bobd22

Yes agree that would help unfortunately solicitor put everything in my name.

bobd22

Latest re this Agencia Tributaria have responded to say that my wife is not shown as residente on the tax payers register . They say she needs to modify that on the Modelo 30. She has opened that to amend and has done using date of issue of the TIE. The form was validated online so we will check in a day or so to see if the certificate is available. I checked my modelo 30 and it shows me residente. It's strange that obtaining tie which she did nearly 4 years ago didn't make her residente when it states that on the card. Also she has been on the Padron since same time and we have both submitted and got copies of our Spanish tax returns. My wife has never owed income as she had no pension and lived off savings until this year. That is the only difference to myself as I have had to pay tax. It strikes me as odd but we will have to see what happens now she's ammended the Modelo 30 as they said

Fred James

Being a legal resident or being on the Padron does not automatically make you tax resident.

You can be non tax resident, but still resident under certain circumstances, such as being out of the country for more than 183 days (allowable under withdrawal agreement residency and of course a Golden Visa).

Even non residents can be deemed tax resident due to having their family tax resident in Spain. Its a minefield of confusion!

The only certain way of becoming officially tax resident is to file a tax declaration (even if no tax is due) or via Form 030.

bobd22

[QUOTE=Fred James;13256609
The only certain way of becoming officially tax resident is to file a tax declaration (even if no tax is due) or via Form 030.[/QUOTE]
I get that Fred I mentioned the TIE and Padron to show she had complied with requirements of residency. Further to that she has submitted Spanish tax returns all be it negative as she had no income other than extremely small amount of savings interest which she declared. We have copies of our tax returns and she submitted them when she challenged fact that they wouldn't issue the tax residency certificate. She has modified the Modelo 30 to show residente but although validated and sent online . The system then said it would not be actioned straight away but after validating at their end? We will have to see what happens. She needs the tax residency certificate for HMRC double tax treaty form as she now receives state pension which is paid gross and declared for tax in Spain.

bobd22

If what she has done from the instructions they sent back doesn't work , we will make an appointment at the Hacienda to sort it out.

Fred James

Are you sure her zero tax returns were actually submitted? if you use a Gestor they often say it's not necessary and don't actually enter them. Many Spanish gestors don't understand the need for foreigners to register as tax residents - all Spanish citizens are considered tax residents by definition unless they can prove otherwise (similar to the UK where your "given at birth" NI number is your tax reference number for life).

A couple of friends who have low incomes went to the tax office (at my suggestion) to do their zero declaration to ensure that they were tax resident and were sent away. They tried another tax office with the same result. I eventually did their declaration online for them.

I am not knocking gestors - they are brilliant at sorting out the Spanish bureaucracy and I have saved €000's using them, but rarely do you find one that truly understands the problems unique to foreigners - why would they? Try and find a financial advisor in the UK who really understands the Spanish system.

Barriej

Did you first file as two individuals?
If so this is probably why.
We have always filed as a couple so after sending the bank account stuff (to prove she actually lived and spent money here) we both received our certs within two weeks.

Did have one issue though... My wife has no income even from the UK and the uK sent back the form asking why my wife would want or need an NT code as she was not working and was not getting anything from the Uk.
It seems that you have to have some income from the Uk (my private pension) to action the fiscal cert. I have kept hers and will send it off once she reaches OAP time, she still wont be taxed in the Uk as I doubt the pension will ever be more than the tax free earnings amount, but we will see in 2030..

bobd22

No our Spanish tax declarations have been joint although we each get a copy of the submission. We only need the tax residency certificate as we rent out a UK property so have to present a UK return. That return shows UK pension including state pension. My wife now receives her state pension so we want that to be shown NT. For my first 2 uk returns I wasn't aware I needed the NT re my state pension as when I applied for it they told me they would pay it gross and to declare it in Spain. That's what I did and I just put in the notes that I had state pension paid gross and declared in Spain, that never caused any issues. However due to another issue I contacted HMRC and was told to submit a double tax treaty form and include my state pension to get it shown NT. I did that and al sorted without issue. So just to be right as my wife now has her state pension paid gross in Spain we plan to submit the double tax treaty form so that her state pension can be shown NT.

bobd22

We have now resolved this issue and managed to obtain a tax residency certificate for my wife. Just in case anyone else has this issue the way it was resolved was as follows. When the application for tax residency was submitted online it was rejected as she was not showing tax resident.. We then online sent them online copies of the two tax submissions she has made. They replied that the application was rejected as not shown on the census Modelo 30 as tax resident.. We logged into the modelo 30 using the wifes electronic signature and manually amended the residency box from non resident to resident . Even though changed online on checking it reverted initially to non resident, however after a few days of checking it then changed to residente. After that we just made a new online application for her tax residency certificate and were able to print it off.
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1sexsmith

Incidentally do you declare and wife declare the UK rent on UK self declaration and then ( very importantly) declare that rent in Spain on the property section of the modelo 100? Because if you just declare it as income and not rent this will result in the hacienda getting things wrong. I only say this because I have met people who rent and declare in UK then simply put the net income onto their savings and pensions and this causes lots of problems if the hacienda do a check.

bobd22

Our Spanish declaration is done through a gestor. I give him all the details of my income including government pensions and income from property rental in the uk with tax paid in the uk. So the hacienda know that we have income from a uk property rental which is taxed in the uk as are my government pensions . I also submitted double taxation form with full details and HMRC NTd the income that i pay tax on in spain.
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