steviedeluxe

Ok, just opening this thread, as it seems to derail others. Is it always a mistake to move to Spain with children, or does it end in tears?
If we stick to facts and genuine experiences, this thread may be very useful for those considering a move to Spain with their offspring.

JLFS

More often that not it ends in tears, you know what I mean, not good.

jimenato

I'm not expecting too many expats with kids to post in this thread. Considering the thread title and all...

lynnxa

well I will

I don't know yet if my kids will be successful - they are still at school.............


they do however more than hold their own at school - they have never been held back as some expat (& Spanish ) kids are, and get respectable to excellent marks

the elder one is on track to start Bachi in September & the younger has just started secondary

I have to admit to being worried about their future here in Spain - but I'm sure with about 50% youth unemployment it's not just expat parents in that position

JLFS

Summed up very well, there a so many Spanish families in the same boat.

But the problem expat children face is a relatively new situation, because in the past most people emigrated to counties where there were more opportunities (or so they believed) for the children, not less opportunities.

Whereas everyone who had looked into it, knows that places like Spain,Italy,Portugal, Greece etc has been a backward step in that respect for years.

lynnxa

until relatively recently I haven't been worried at all - they are both bi/tri lingual & the education system has been IMO excellent - so they would have a bright enough future wherever they choose to live &/or go to Uni (dd1 wants to go to uni in the US as I have mentioned before)

BUT - the recent education cuts & Rajoy's (as yet not completely clear) plans for education are what is worrying me - will my dd's graduate on a level playing field with teh rest of the world now - that is my biggest worry

steviedeluxe

The problem will be having the relevant skills.
I've heard it said that "there is no problem with lack of jobs, rather a lack of people with the relevant skills" and this is as true in Spain as in the UK.
At the moment people with the relevant web/IT-skills are heavily in demand. Just do a search on Twitter for "Madrid Java" or "programador web" and there are loads of vacancies.
Interestingly I placed a post here for a Business Development Manager a couple of months ago - not one reply!
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=738537
The problem will be getting the right experience and skills ie knowing where to specialise. Not the easiest thing to do, imo, in a world where skillsets change every few months with new developments.

Lenox

My ex-pat kids are now all grown-up, bilingual and working... in America. Here, in the pueblo, it's hard to get a worthwhile job, and you won't get one with the consistorio unless you are called 'López', 'Flores' or 'García'. There are better chances in the ciudad, where the employers are rather more europeo than cateto. But mostly, the kids should enjoy growing up in Spain, then move away to other things. That second language will be useful, and so will the wider experience.

jackytoo

Yes British immigrants to English speaking countries like Australia and the US seem to integrate and do better. Moving to European countries is giving them a handicap to begin with. In this era kids need all the help they can get. Look how many in the UK spend thousands just moving to an area with a good school. Yet we see them on these boards who choose an area and then start asking about schools and jobs.

One thing what would deter me is once they have got qualifications in Spain they won't have an equal chance in the jobs market. Everything is run on enchufismo and the majority of Spaniards would never employ a foreigner if they could get someone to do the job adequately. In the UK if they require an additional language for a post then the pay reflects it, not always so in Spain.

snikpoh

I think people are forgetting that Spanish is still one of the main languages in the world. Consequently, learning to speak Spanish (by living here) can only be of benefit - surely.

When does someone cease being a foreigner? Is it some arbitrary factor like surname? or is it by 'years of service'? For example, my children moved here when they were 8 - when they try and get jobs (say at 21), will they still be foreigners? What about children who have lived here since, say, 2?

My biggest concern is not whether they will be able to get a job in Spain but will they get a job anywhere? I think this is as true if they had gone through the UK system as if they went through the Spanish.

As a generalization, are there ANY "Successful kids in Spain" whether expat or not? is it really any different for expats?

lynnxa

yes, that's my feeling too - the extra language(s) will put them ahead in the international market wherever they end up living, especially because it's Spanish

my 2 were 4 & 7 when we moved here - the younger has been here 2/3 of her life now & the older one more than half - they are more Spanish in their attitudes than English

I suspect they, like Lenox's kids, my Spanish landlord's kids & so many other kids brought up in Spain will find their fortune elsewhere

cricketman

Generally, its very hard to get the first job after uni in Spain. For young people here its best to move abroad for 3-7 years to build up experience, then move back to Spain in a position a couple of levels above the graduates.

That is what my wife, her sisters, cousins and several friends and I did (although I went to UK uni).

They had no problems abroad with their Spanish qualifications and no problem in Spain with their qualifications and experience built up abroad. This should be the same for all young people nevermind their nationality

There is a big BUT, you must be very well qualified and speak excellent Spanish and English (in fact most good jobs in the business fields in Spain ask for you to be fluent in at least 3 European languages)

All the expat kids I know down here work in English bars but havent got a qualification to rub between them

However, of course the Spanish job market stinks at the moment, there are no opportunities at all but I am sure that in 5 years or so things will be better, just like they were 5 years ago

Let me just add one thing, my wife speaks 3 languages at native level and several more at a bit lower level. You will not earn more money by speaking many languages. Languages do offer more opportunities and freedom which is priceless, and sometimes it sways the decision to go your way in job interviews. But generally jobs that ask for many languages are badly paid because they are customer service based

Domino

Well when reading the job adverts by the likes of Budget Insurance, Thomas Cook, Norwich Insurance etc etc, you will find the salary level for those with a second or natural language is exactly the same.
I have never been able to understand companies who expand and wish to cover for example Mandarin speakers but only pay the same basic wage as for a UK call centre operator. The last advert I remember seeing, with an agency, they were paying around £16,000pa - not exactly the "streets of gold" but then it is East Anglia which is in a pit where salaries are concerned. Obviously it would be better in the City, but perhaps the competition is greater.

JLFS

My daughter worked for a while in a call centre when she moved in with her boyfriend and moved away from home......the English only speakers were on 5pound an hour and the second languages speakers were on 8.

cricketman

That might be true at levels where you get paid per hour, but as Domino says salaries tend to be exactly the same. In fact jobs that ask for additional languages tend to have lower salaries than those that dont (in London at least) as they are normally for customer service which is badly paid

The best thing about being bilingual, trilingual etc is that it opens up the world to you

I often joke about the Spanish parents here who send their kids to English speaking international schools that they are spending a 100,000 euros to train them as a hotel receptionist