Sterling/Euro

Old May 9th 2012, 8:07 pm
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
Let's hope the world never discovers just how wrong you are.
The position the UK is in is very real, very desperate and VERY urgent. How anybody, seeing the terrifying speed with which the deficit continues to increase, can believe that Britain is cutting borrowing too SLOWLY is utterly beyond me. The double dip has certainly not got anything to do with the speed of cuts - if only it did.
I understand that you're right, and that the deficit is still increasing. Never mind the debt, how can we ever recover if the deficit keeps increasing? I'm not going to pretend I know the answer to this.
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Old May 9th 2012, 8:14 pm
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

It is a bit like not being able to pay the minimum balance on your credit card.
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Old May 9th 2012, 8:20 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Originally Posted by HBG
I'm not a left-leaning socialist, but somebody has to correct the notion that this awful recession was caused by the Labour party. It was caused by bankers the world over who parcelled up US sub-prime mortgages and sold them to each other to make huge bonuses.

None of the financial regulators spotted the dangers until it was too late, and Gordon Brown actually got the world leaders together to bail out their banks after Lehmans went down, not that they had much choice.
The Worldwide recession was initially caused mainly by greedy bankers and others who wanted to make a quick killing.

The fact that some countries are able to ride it out whilst others are desperately struggling is due to lack of foresight, over borrowing and disastrous financial mismanagement by the govts of those countries such as Spain and the UK which are worst affected.

Oh sorry I forgot.
G.B.saved the World,...............I don't think,......surely the worst PM in history.
Interesting to note how even the rest of his own party now treat him like a bad dose of clap.
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Old May 9th 2012, 8:20 pm
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

I'm not in finance, far from it. But can anyone tell me?
If Greece and/or Portrugal and /or Spain leaves the euro. Then with Germany still in, won't it rise quickly? So is this not a reason for buying euros?
Will we not be allowed to keep our Spanish bank accounts in euros? after all it is possible to have euro accounts in the UK.
I can understand Einsteins laws of special relativity, but this lot baffles me!
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Old May 9th 2012, 8:26 pm
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Originally Posted by teuchterpete
I'm not in finance, far from it. But can anyone tell me?
If Greece and/or Portrugal and /or Spain leaves the euro. Then with Germany still in, won't it rise quickly? So is this not a reason for buying euros?
Will we not be allowed to keep our Spanish bank accounts in euros? after all it is possible to have euro accounts in the UK.
I can understand Einsteins laws of special relativity, but this lot baffles me!
Pete
You're not the only one (confused). It's made more difficult by the fact some people are talking about Germany leaving the Euro - and then the value really would fall against other currencies. But yes, I think your point is right - if smaller countries like Greece leave, surely that would make the Euro stronger? I think though it's the uncertainty that is creating panic everywhere
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Old May 9th 2012, 9:20 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Germany in, Spain and Greece out equals new currency - the Neuro.
Spain in, Germany and Holland out equals new currency - the Seuro.

The trouble with Euros is, if anyone leaves, nobody knows what is left, untill someone knows WHO is leaving -

imagine a mince pie with no currants. Or no pastry.

There is a huge difference between the two.

The real problem is that we are now in what is called the EndGame. For 50/60 years in Europe Governments of all colours have promised us that we can have tomorrows jam today.

As Liam Byrne said,
There is no more fruit.

Which means we have to stop stealing/borrowing from our children.
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Old May 10th 2012, 8:21 am
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Originally Posted by HBG
I'm not a left-leaning socialist, but somebody has to correct the notion that this awful recession was caused by the Labour party. It was caused by bankers the world over who parcelled up US sub-prime mortgages and sold them to each other to make huge bonuses.

None of the financial regulators spotted the dangers until it was too late, and Gordon Brown actually got the world leaders together to bail out their banks after Lehmans went down, not that they had much choice.
No, you can't blame any one party at any one time. Overspending is overspending any way you look at it. But overspending has historically been primarily conducted by liberals, in their quest to "equalise" wealth and "protect" the population from itself.

Sub-primes weren't only a US problem, easy and irresponsible credit was widely available throughout Europe, in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain, the UK... through UK and European banks. To suggest this was strictly a US activity is sheer bollocks. It's a worldwide phenomenon, and governments were amongst the largest customers.

If you think that subprimes are the only reason we're in this mess, then I'd agree to the extent that at the end of the day, it's our governments that have been the most guilty of irresponsibly over-borrowing and outspending beyond their means - in "the best interests of the population". But of course, nobody will take any responsibility for that and are extremely reluctant to even acknowledge overspending - but blaming the Americans has always worked like a charm.

Then there's the Euro shackles - Greece, Spain, Italy and the rest are forced into an economic box that their economies can't support, so the only way out is to raise taxes and impose draconian cuts in spending - historically the single best way to destroy an economy. (not surprisingly, has also been claimed by some to be an American conspiracy, because naturally, it "wasn't me" - a typical Europolitic diversion of all responsibility).

Even more frightening, now the money's gone, social spending is cut, taxes rising, naturally the population is pissed off - wants its entitlements & prosperity back, and aren't having any of this austerity nonsense.

Something's gotta (gonna) give - eventually.

Last edited by amideislas; May 10th 2012 at 8:27 am.
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Old May 10th 2012, 8:24 am
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

You need to keep your Euros in a German bank in Germany, that way if the Euro goes bang you end up with some lovely new German Euros that will be worth a lot more than the Spanish Euros or Sterling. If it doesn't go bang at least you know the German bank won't go bust.

Personally, a world dominated by the Chinese and Germans is not a thrilling prospect.

Gordon Brown's idea of growth was to pass pointless laws then set up a bureacracy to police them paid by the people who had to obey the law and if he was still there he would have tried to get everyone totally dependent on the state (ie on himself) so they were too frightened to get rid of him.

Back to the Euro, in Spain around the 1.20 mark to sterling seems about right for covering the general cost of living there.
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Old May 10th 2012, 8:31 am
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Originally Posted by amideislas
No, you can't blame any one party at any one time. Overspending is overspending any way you look at it. But overspending has historically been primarily conducted by liberals, in their quest to "equalise" wealth and "protect" the population from itself.

Sub-primes weren't only a US problem, easy and irresponsible credit was widely available throughout Europe, in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain, the UK... through UK and European banks. To suggest this was strictly a US activity is sheer bollocks. It's a worldwide phenomenon, and governments were amongst the largest customers.

If you think that subprimes are the only reason we're in this mess, then I'd agree to the extent that at the end of the day, it's our governments that have been the most guilty of irresponsibly over-borrowing and outspending beyond their means - in "the best interests of the population". But of course, nobody will take any responsibility for that and are extremely reluctant to even acknowledge overspending - but blaming the Americans has always worked like a charm.

Then there's the Euro shackles - Greece, Spain, Italy and the rest are forced into an economic box that their economies can't support, so the only way out is to raise taxes and impose draconian cuts in spending - historically the single best way to destroy an economy. (not surprisingly, has also been claimed by some to be an American conspiracy, because naturally, it "wasn't me" - a typical Europolitic diversion of all responsibility).

Even more frightening, now the money's gone, social spending is cut, taxes rising, naturally the population is pissed off - wants its entitlements & prosperity back, and aren't having any of this austerity nonsense.

Something's gotta (gonna) give - eventually.
Much blame to go around. Overspending and over borrowing in nearly all western countries. No easy out.
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Old May 10th 2012, 8:33 am
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Originally Posted by britishbull
You need to keep your Euros in a German bank in Germany, that way if the Euro goes bang you end up with some lovely new German Euros that will be worth a lot more than the Spanish Euros or Sterling. If it doesn't go bang at least you know the German bank won't go bust.
German banks have been no better than others. It may not have attracted the same publicity but their banks have been bailed out too

http://www.ota-berlin.de/blog/12/04/...a-basket-case/

To stop it falling into insolvency, the WestLB, based in Dusseldorf, will be the first German bank to use federal government aid.

A “Landesbank” is a German bank controlled by the regional state governments. The WestLB Bank is owned by the state government of North Rhine Westphalia and that state’s non-profit public savings banks.

It had at one time visions to become an international player but instead made all the stupid mistakes that all other stupid banking upstarts made and followed the lemmings off the cliff in the so-called “Global Financial Crisis”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSH_Nordbank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKB_Deutsche_Industriebank
IKB Deutsche Industriebank (FWB: IKBG) is a bank based in Düsseldorf, Germany. It is specialized in lending to small and medium-sized companies.
In August 2007, it had to be bailed out due to bad losses in the subprime market meltdown
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Old May 10th 2012, 9:54 am
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Lets look at this
When New Labour "swept" into power they did the same as every Labour government has done - spent their way to the people's hearts. Its just that the people sometimes seem so dumb (sri) and don't realise it is their money that is being spent.
They announced £billions on new this new that and the NHS must have been bailed out at least 3 times before Bliar realised that it was catching up on him.
Now a few years have elapsed, he has spent $millions on a private office and been unsuccessful as a Middle East peacemaker he now wants to return to the fold and support Labour and The Nation.

New Labour spent so much money that wasnt "on the books" leaving the country saddled with PFI arrangments where costs are ramped up every year for 25 years. Hence the problems at Hinchingbrooke and a number of others that have suddenly found they cannot afford their rent - but have demolished their original buildings to get a small cash injection from the land sale.

Whatever the numbers say, the UK is in as big a mess as all the others, just on the outside looking in on the Euro problems whilst being asked to provide more financial support for the ECB to lend into a market the UK is not part of.

However, the mess is worldwide. If we don't sell our products outside the country we get no international income. Many products are now imported to give a 365 day availability instead of products waxing and waning due to the seasons. If we don't buy then other countries outside this £/€/$ problem on worldwide markets see a fall in income they cannot cope with either so it becomes a very vicious circle.

Some people are extolling the virtues of countries like Uruguay, Venezuala, even Argentina, which provide for the internal market before selling on the international. But is that the answer, and one of the reasons for lack of exporting is summed up by looking at the Argentinians takeover of Spain's oil interests. Feathering their own nest after someone else has done all the hard work.

These are difficult and dangerous times.

Its a pity the restaurant on the moon has no atmosphere.
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Old May 10th 2012, 11:10 am
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

Originally Posted by Domino

Some people are extolling the virtues of countries like Uruguay, Venezuala, even Argentina, which provide for the internal market before selling on the international. But is that the answer, and one of the reasons for lack of exporting is summed up by looking at the Argentinians takeover of Spain's oil interests. Feathering their own nest after someone else has done all the hard work.

These are difficult and dangerous times.

Its a pity the restaurant on the moon has no atmosphere.
I often hear about how Norway is a shining example of the way socialism should be.

Fortunately for them and others you mentioned, they have more natural resources than they can ever posssibly consume domestically. Norway has a small population with major exports - a large oil industry and a huge forestry industry, fishing and others - rendering huge external revenue into government coffers, allowing them to provide cushy entitlements and benefits to their citizens within a balanced budget. They aren't in a continuing spiral of debt, simply because they are fortunate enough to have alternative non-tax revenues which sustain their social utopia without the need to borrow themselves into oblivion. The oil-rich gulf states and Saudi Arabia are other good examples of this. If the resources dried up, they too would be in a world of hurt.

Few countries are that fortunate (or responsible), and must obtain their revenues solely from taxation - the money just goes round and round. As economies bubble and burst, so do their tax revenues. When the economy goes south, they have to borrow themselves into oblivion to sustain their spending levels - in anticipation of paying it off when the economy recovers.

The problem is that when the economy recovers, we just spend even more...

When the money is flowing, it's pretty easy to adopt the idealistic fantasy that we can afford it, which often leads us right into the next downturn...
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Old May 10th 2012, 11:11 am
  #58  
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

If you put all the economists who think they have an answer end to end they still wouldn't reach a conclusion!
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Old May 10th 2012, 12:09 pm
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

In the Telegraph today, they're saying that children born today will have to work until they're 80 before drawing their retirement pension. You wonder where the work is going to come from?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...n-reforms.html
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Old May 10th 2012, 12:31 pm
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Default Re: Sterling/Euro

They will have to emigrate to China?
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