Dick Dasterdly

........Dropout rate, the highest in the EU.

http://www.thelocal.es/20140411/spai...ope-lomce-wert


http://www.thelocal.es/20130626/stud...ost-generation

Depressing news.
"Spain's Lost Generation".

Does not bode well for the future.

lynnxa

there's no denying that things don't bode well for the future but it's not comparing like with like

I went to a meeting about education a few months ago - I was the only non-Spaniard there - most of the others worked in education or politics & the speaker was an internationally respected author & commentator on education

I was asked why the situation in the UK was so much better - when I explained that a 16 year old can leave school having passed just one subject at GCSE & therefore not be considered to have 'dropped out' everyone was amazed

here, they have to pass at least 10 of 12 subjects including 3 core subjects - or they leave school with nothing & would therefore be considered to have dropped out

cricketman

Yes, and lets note that the proportion of 20 somethings with a degree is actually higher than the EU average

The problem in Spain is not education (although education is pretty average) but the lack of jobs

Casa Santo Estevo

I am get the feeling this on-line newspaper is getting a bit like the DM.

chopera

There was another report out recently that indicated Spanish students are below average when it comes to practical problem solving. It backs up a lot of the stories I hear about Spanish education being overly based around rote learning and memory tests, with very little connection to solving "real world" problems. If so then I'm not surprised so many give up on it.

agoreira

No, it certainly doesn't bode well for the future, but not surprisingly that's explained by UK fiddling the figures, Spain unscrupulously honest. However despite being told here that education in Spain is far superior to UK, the PITA figures tell a different story, UK is ahead of Spain in all subjects. (but we're all dropping behind the Far East.)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...s-in-full.html
Unless it has changed, Spain hasn't a university rated in the top 150 in the world, UK has loads, including in the top ten.
Just came here after reading this report, so many of the well qualified Spanish, PhD's etc, are leaving in droves for South America, for well paid jobs they couldn't dream of having in Spain. Seems they are willing to forget the low esteem and ridicule they had for sudacos! They are now going, cap in hand, to work for the very people they laughed at for years.

http://www.thespainreport.com/4853/f...spains-gifted/

cricketman

[QUOTE=agoreira;11217829]However despite being told here that education in Spain is far superior to UK, the PITA figures tell a different story, UK is ahead of Spain in all subjects [QUOTE]

I have never read or heard anybody say that - especially not on here

You like to play the outraged victim don't you?

steviedeluxe

Funny to see the change in line from thelocal. Only a few months ago they headlined with

Europe's top business school? It's Spain's IE

http://www.thelocal.es/20131203/thre...europes-top-10

I really don't know if this is a plus or minus point, but Spanish children are taught far more comprehensively about the structure of language. So they will know what a verb or an adjective is, which will be of use if they study other languages. Of course they struggle on pronunciation when they learn English, and this has been put down to the widespread use of dubbing.
Many British graduates on the other hand, couldn't tell you the difference between a adjective and an adverb. But is that so important if they're not likely to learn other languages anyway? Both cases could be put I suppose.

steviedeluxe

[QUOTE=cricketman;11217848][QUOTE=agoreira;11217829]However despite being told here that education in Spain is far superior to UK, the PITA figures tell a different story, UK is ahead of Spain in all subjects He makes things up to troll - and puts those on ignore who point out his fallacies.

jackytoo

He doesn't make anything up. Everything he puts on is backed up by a link and there have been comments on here when jobless figures were posted that the UK fiddled their figures. Not a troll or a liar, just off (your) message

chopera

From what I understand, Spanish language learning has traditionally consisted of lots of language drills and grammar, memorizing verb conjugations, etc, and very little emphasis on practical application - getting people to actually speak the language. This was in part due to the requirement that all state school teachers have to be functionaries, which makes it very difficult for foreigners to take up teaching posts (they have to renounce their nationality, take up Spanish nationality, and pass loads of civil service exams). This has changed recently with the teaching assistant programmes, but is still indicative of a wider problem in Spanish education that education tends to be based around memory tests rather than intrinsic learning.

I've heard it from engineers as well that Spanish graduates are very good at whatever they've had drilled into them at university, but they're not so good at dealing with problems from outside the textbook, where the solution might not be so obvious, or might require a bit of lateral thinking. The assumption is that you learn a set of skills at university (la carrera) and then spend the rest of your working life either applying those skills to your job, or you go off and do something completely different like work in a bank, doing a job that requires very little creativity. Of course there are exceptions, but this is the system Spanish students have to fight against in order to become employable.

chopera

The very first line was trolling:

It had nothing to do with the topic and was completely unfounded, with no links to back it up. It was entirely intended to wind up other posters, and it has succeeded. You've jumped in as well, I'm responding to it, and a thread that was originally about Spanish education has already been hijacked. Mission achieved. Congratulations.

cricketman

Yes that is a good summary of the situation

Spanish people idealistically think that you go to university to learn the knowledge/skills that you will later apply in your job - this is incredibly naive and universities have never been about training a future workforce. The role of universities is to create knowledegable individuals who can apply themselves to anything

In general, a lot of Spanish young people are naive and idealistic - which is charming, but not helpful if trying to make your way in the world

Just a small point, you don't need to be Spanish to take oposiciones. I know foriegners who are state school teachers, nurses etc. and they have passed the oposiciones here in Spain.

Dick Dasterdly

I receive quite a lot of feedback regarding Spanish schools from my Spanish friends and neighbours.
Unfortunately up until now I've not heard any of them say a good word about the quality of the basic education system.
Not only that, but I have been requested on a few occasions to give their kids some English lessons because of what they consider to be a couldn't care less attitude by many of the teachers.
Needless to say I always politely refused on the grounds that I was not qualified to do so, but at the back of my mind was the thought that I wouldn't fancy it anyway, even if I was.