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Spanish Residencia - please help

Spanish Residencia - please help

Old Sep 21st 2004, 9:02 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by Beachcomber
But is it not still the case that anyone spending more than a total of 183 days is considered to be a resident of Spain for tax purposes, but who counts the days, and what happens about driving licences?

The DGT web site states that driving licences issued within the EU remain valid for use in Spain as long as the restrictions on age are adhered to and that it must be exchanged for for a Spanish one or be stamped by Trafico within six months of obtaining a residence permit.

Does this mean that if someone does not obtain a residence permit they can drive for ever in Spain without the need to comply with these requirements or will they be considered to be residents anyway if they spend more than 183 days here?

If the former perhaps someone should explain this to the Guardia Civil who have have imposed fines upon hundreds of foreigners locally for driving Spanish registered cars with an unstamped EU driving licence and if the latter then doing away with the need to obtain a residence permit is nothing more than a paper exercise.
The Elgestor statement is I understand correct, however, one of the problems in Spain appears to be that differnt rules or interpretation are taken depending on which Province one resides in. I have found that having a residencia and having my driving licence officialy stamped has eased life bothe in every day life and with the Guardia.
One point I would correct, in my web www.practicalspain.com I do suggest that you should carry photo copies of your insurance papers, this is incorrect, you should carry the original papers but keep copies in case of theft etc. The Guardia can fine you €90+ for not having them with you.
Maurice Hamlin
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Old Sep 21st 2004, 10:59 am
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by movetogandia
I have found that having a residencia and having my driving licence officialy stamped has eased life bothe in every day life and with the Guardia.
Maurice Hamlin

Yes, we must remember that the Spanish government have not abolished the residence permit, per se, they have merely lifted the requirement to have one. If you look on some of the ministry web sites you will find that for various operations and applications you need to produce EITHER your residence permit OR your passport, NIE certificate and certificate of empadronamiento and in some cases your escritura as well. I know which I would prefer to do.

Regarding the vehicle documents, if you really cannot bring yourself to keep your documents in the car I understand that the DGT will, at a price, issue certified copies which are acceptable to the police and Guardia Civil. Notarised copies are not acceptable. If you lose the insurance certificate it is easy to get a duplicate from the bank.
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Old Sep 21st 2004, 1:13 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

The other problem if you do not have residencia I am lead to believe is that if you do not have it and die you pay 35% capital gains but 15% if resident, seems to me that you save if resident. We all know that being part of EU you do not need it, but tell the Spanish government that, unlike the British who do everything EU Parliament tells them rest of Europe do not appear to do so as you are probably aware. Nice to see you here Beachcomber.
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Old Sep 21st 2004, 1:26 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Hi pwwm, I’ve been registered here for a while but the pop-ups and cookies used to annoy me. I’ve got a blocker now which keeps most of them at bay.

I’m not sure about your comment about capital gains. When you die you pay inheritance tax and I don’t think it makes any difference if you have a residence permit.

However, if you sell your property as a non-resident a 5% retention is made on the purchase price and paid to the tax office on account of your capital gains tax. The actual capital gains tax as a non-resident is 35% whereas if you are a resident there is no retention and you declare it in your annual tax return the percentage depending on which band your income falls into. Perhaps this is where you got the figures of 35% and 15% from.

Furthermore, if you sell your primary residence as a resident and invest the proceeds in a new property within two years you pay no capital gains tax at all. (Unless you are moving down market in which case a little is payable)

Last edited by Beachcomber; Sep 21st 2004 at 6:28 pm.
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Old Jan 12th 2005, 12:24 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Just an additional point to the residence permit question.

If you are already known by the government, by having an NIE, there is no need for a residencia.

But, if you´re one of the many persons, like me, who doesn´t work, doesn´t receive a pension from somewhere else and doesn´t own property, I would be required to get a residencia should I reside here for more thatn 183 days per year.

That´s my understanding. If anyone with legal knowledge of the situation, thinks I´m incorrect, please post a message, as I´d prefer not to apply.

thanks.
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Old Jan 14th 2005, 7:07 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by elgestor
I looked at several other items on their site and I would be surprised if they don't cause more problems than they solve.

The NIE is a fiscal registration number in Spain. It is issued by the Dirección General de la Policía. The number must be used on all official documents and although you may purchase your property as No-Residente, you must as soon as you own property obtain your NIE.

There are two forms both very similar, one is for Residentes ie. people that intend to become residents of Spain. The other is for non-residents that own property in Spain. Should you purchase property in Spain as a non-resident and then decide to become resident you will need to notify the Dirección General de la Policía of your change of status.

The NIE takes on average three days to acquire and the application is very straight forward. You wont need photographs, fingerprints, criminal or medical records. You simply need your passport, a photocopy of your passport, address, reason for application, and parents names.

There is a phrase included on the application form "Autorizacion De Intercambio de Datos". This allows competent government departments: tax, social security, police, etc to share information on the applicant. When you sign the application you are giving authority for the information to be shared. I have never known any EU national to be turned down.
Do you have your NIE yet or not? If you don't and don't want to faff about when you are in spain - language barrier and all that, or just don't have time, it is possible to do it in the UK. You do have to actually go to the Spanish consulate (I went to the one in Draycott place, Chelsea) with various papers - passport, photos and fill in forms. They validate all the paperwork in the UK and then send it to Spain for the NIE to be issued. When we applied there was some uncertainty about whether, if we gave a UK address, the number would actually be sent to us in the UK, but lo and behold about 5 weeks later, we were sent our NIE to our home address. This worked for us because when we made the offer on our house, we only had a couple of days left in Spain, and having left spain, it would have been really expensive to fly back for a few days just to deal with the NIE. And as everyone knows, you hve to have your NIE for the bank accounts, mortgages etc. If you do want to get your NIE sorted in the UK, let me know and I'll tell you what you have to do. Beware, if you ring the consulate, there is one (spanish) woman there who is about the rudest person on earth, and all she does is to shout at you to "READ WHAT IS SAYS ON THE WEBSITE" whilst ignoring all your attempts to get information.
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Old Jan 14th 2005, 8:29 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by cindyp
Do you have your NIE yet or not? If you don't and don't want to faff about when you are in spain - language barrier and all that, or just don't have time, it is possible to do it in the UK. You do have to actually go to the Spanish consulate (I went to the one in Draycott place, Chelsea) with various papers - passport, photos and fill in forms. They validate all the paperwork in the UK and then send it to Spain for the NIE to be issued. When we applied there was some uncertainty about whether, if we gave a UK address, the number would actually be sent to us in the UK, but lo and behold about 5 weeks later, we were sent our NIE to our home address. This worked for us because when we made the offer on our house, we only had a couple of days left in Spain, and having left spain, it would have been really expensive to fly back for a few days just to deal with the NIE. And as everyone knows, you hve to have your NIE for the bank accounts, mortgages etc. If you do want to get your NIE sorted in the UK, let me know and I'll tell you what you have to do. Beware, if you ring the consulate, there is one (spanish) woman there who is about the rudest person on earth, and all she does is to shout at you to "READ WHAT IS SAYS ON THE WEBSITE" whilst ignoring all your attempts to get information.
She must be the one who worked for Telefonica ADSL, but she must have learned a bit of English since then
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Old Jan 14th 2005, 9:32 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by jdr
She must be the one who worked for Telefonica ADSL, but she must have learned a bit of English since then
Yeah, this woman is absolutely famous at Draycott Place. EVeryone in the queue waiting for their NIE application was absolutely wetting themselves at the prospect of actually having to deal with her face to face. Luckily when we went, we had an absolutely lovely lady, really helpful. But I have heard of people being turned away by the nasty one for not having a stamped addresssed envelope - right to the back of the 3 hour queue!!!! So Telefonica has her sister or twin, right????
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Old Jan 15th 2005, 9:01 am
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by cindyp
Yeah, this woman is absolutely famous at Draycott Place. EVeryone in the queue waiting for their NIE application was absolutely wetting themselves at the prospect of actually having to deal with her face to face. Luckily when we went, we had an absolutely lovely lady, really helpful. But I have heard of people being turned away by the nasty one for not having a stamped addresssed envelope - right to the back of the 3 hour queue!!!! So Telefonica has her sister or twin, right????
Sounds like the twin...
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Old Jan 15th 2005, 11:03 am
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by jdr
Sounds like the twin...
The Dragon at Draycott Place
:scared:

Don't be intimidated by these "functionarios". They can sense it. Just stand your ground and remain unphased.
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Old Jan 15th 2005, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Beware, if you ring the consulate, there is one (spanish) woman there who is about the rudest person on earth, and all she does is to shout at you to "READ WHAT IS SAYS ON THE WEBSITE" whilst ignoring all your attempts to get information.[/QUOTE]

Just ask her if she was sent on training to be a bitch or did she have the qualities already.
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Old Jan 15th 2005, 5:31 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by Mercedes
Beware, if you ring the consulate, there is one (spanish) woman there who is about the rudest person on earth, and all she does is to shout at you to "READ WHAT IS SAYS ON THE WEBSITE" whilst ignoring all your attempts to get information.
Just ask her if she was sent on training to be a bitch or did she have the qualities already.[/QUOTE]

She put the phone down on me once when I asked her if I needed an appointment, so I rang back and she ignored it and so I redialled again and she picked it up. I restarted my question and she shouted I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU READ THE WEBSITE, YOU'VE RUNG ME 3 TIMES RANT, RANT, RANT

I said 'well if you hadn't put the phone down and then ignored me ringing back I wouldn't have rung you 3 times would I'.

She hurumphed very loudly and (forgive me) I said 'In England, when someone rings a reception point with an enquiry, we don't shout at them or put the phone down, we help them and I think you should do that....


whereupon she hurmphed again....


I said, 'you really are a very rude person....'

...and she put the phone down!!!!! So I think she's one person who never needed bitch training, she was born like it. And unfortunately many who ring the consulate have to get past her first. She's the same to spanish enquirers too, she was really horrible to my sister's friend who is spanish, in fact she's the person who warned me I might come across her.

Which is a shame, because all the other staff are so helpful. Even the Consul who signs the power of attornies and wears all the big mayoral chain type stuff, and as the man with all the power could be forgiven if he seemed like he didn't have time to deal with plebs like us, was absolutely lovely. Explained what all the paperwork meant, what we were signing etc. And then said, oh Chiclana eh? Which bit are you buying in, I have a holiday house in Roche myself. We said, no we can't afford Roche, out of our range, but nearby.

He told us how much he loves it there, how lovely it is in the quiet season and hoped we'd enjoy it too. Lovely man. Not a bit full of himself.

It's bad because the Consulate is there to help and if you get this bitch of a woman it just puts you off ever ringing again.
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Old Jan 15th 2005, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by cindyp
And as everyone knows, you have to have your NIE for the bank accounts, mortgages etc.
Just to pick you up on the point of opening a bank account in Spain. You do not need any NIE number to open one. A bank may require you to sign a one page form confirming that you are a NON RESIDENT and issue you with a No Residente bank account and chequebook etc. If you become a 'resident' later on then you would need to revert to the bank and get the account changed over. I am not sure about the requirement for obtaining a mortgage. I think it depends on the bank possibly but I imagine that somewhere along the paperwork the bank would need an NIE in order to complete the paperwork. Computers don't lie !

The NIE is described in the Spanish A.E.A.T. web site (Agencia Tributaria) http://www.aeat.es/ as follows:

Fiscal Identification Number
Every person in Spain is assigned a Fiscal Identification Number which is used for all tax returns and correspondence with the Tax Administration. In the case of Spanish nationals, this number is the same as the National Identity Number, "DNI", while in the case of foreign individuals, the number is the Foreign Individual Identity Number, "NIE", which is obtained at the General Directorate of Police. However, nationals belonging to member states of the European Union and other states subscribing to the Agreement for European Economic Space, are not obliged to request an identity number as a foreigner and may ask to be assigned a Fiscal Identification Number from the Spanish Tax Authorities.


It is my understanding that a Fiscal Identification Number is the same number as the NIE ! Therefore it can be understood that the NIE number is basically the same as a Tax Number. To return your annual tax form and pay your Modelo 214 (if a non resident) you will need this number. So it makes sense to get one sooner or later. Unless you live in a cave and don't want anybody to know you.
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Old Jan 15th 2005, 6:29 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by Nige
Just to pick you up on the point of opening a bank account in Spain. You do not need any NIE number to open one. A bank may require you to sign a one page form confirming that you are a NON RESIDENT and issue you with a No Residente bank account and chequebook etc. If you become a 'resident' later on then you would need to revert to the bank and get the account changed over. I am not sure about the requirement for obtaining a mortgage. I think it depends on the bank possibly but I imagine that somewhere along the paperwork the bank would need an NIE in order to complete the paperwork. Computers don't lie !

The NIE is described in the Spanish A.E.A.T. web site (Agencia Tributaria) http://www.aeat.es/ as follows:

Fiscal Identification Number
Every person in Spain is assigned a Fiscal Identification Number which is used for all tax returns and correspondence with the Tax Administration. In the case of Spanish nationals, this number is the same as the National Identity Number, "DNI", while in the case of foreign individuals, the number is the Foreign Individual Identity Number, "NIE", which is obtained at the General Directorate of Police. However, nationals belonging to member states of the European Union and other states subscribing to the Agreement for European Economic Space, are not obliged to request an identity number as a foreigner and may ask to be assigned a Fiscal Identification Number from the Spanish Tax Authorities.


It is my understanding that a Fiscal Identification Number is the same number as the NIE ! Therefore it can be understood that the NIE number is basically the same as a Tax Number. To return your annual tax form and pay your Modelo 214 (if a non resident) you will need this number. So it makes sense to get one sooner or later. Unless you live in a cave and don't want anybody to know you.
Yeah, you are right. We were able to open a bank account and start the mortgage application without it but in our case, in theory, the bank were not happy to complete the purchase without the NIE.
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Old Jan 15th 2005, 10:02 pm
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Default Re: Spanish Residencia - please help

Originally Posted by cindyp
Just ask her if she was sent on training to be a bitch or did she have the qualities already.
She put the phone down on me once when I asked her if I needed an appointment, so I rang back and she ignored it and so I redialled again and she picked it up. I restarted my question and she shouted I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU READ THE WEBSITE, YOU'VE RUNG ME 3 TIMES RANT, RANT, RANT

I said 'well if you hadn't put the phone down and then ignored me ringing back I wouldn't have rung you 3 times would I'.

She hurumphed very loudly and (forgive me) I said 'In England, when someone rings a reception point with an enquiry, we don't shout at them or put the phone down, we help them and I think you should do that...
whereupon she hurmphed again....

I said, 'you really are a very rude person....'

...and she put the phone down!!!!! So I think she's one person who never needed bitch training, she was born like it. And unfortunately many who ring the consulate have to get past her first. She's the same to spanish enquirers too, she was really horrible to my sister's friend who is spanish, in fact she's the person who warned me I might come across her.

Which is a shame, because all the other staff are so helpful. Even the Consul who signs the power of attornies and wears all the big mayoral chain type stuff, and as the man with all the power could be forgiven if he seemed like he didn't have time to deal with plebs like us, was absolutely lovely. Explained what all the paperwork meant, what we were signing etc. And then said, oh Chiclana eh? Which bit are you buying in, I have a holiday house in Roche myself. We said, no we can't afford Roche, out of our range, but nearby.

He told us how much he loves it there, how lovely it is in the quiet season and hoped we'd enjoy it too. Lovely man. Not a bit full of himself.

It's bad because the Consulate is there to help and if you get this bitch of a woman it just puts you off ever ringing again.[/QUOTE]

Maybe she hates the job, or had too many rude people in the past or her husband traded her in for another woman. Get some one probably better a male (though you never know lol) with a sexy voice and a good flirt to ring her, you never know, she may have a nice side to her when a bit of charm is used on her.
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