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Spains drying up

Spains drying up

Old May 11th 2023, 6:21 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by olivefarmer
I am up in Galicia at the moment. Plenty of water here!

Spain is at a crossroads in my view. Do something epic or let the desert claim the south.

The opportunity is there to do something epic. Eg A national water grid, massive desalination plants, regularisation of water usage. There is even huge amounts of money available in the form of the 70 billion of EU recovery grants. Sadly the latter will vanish into a few pockets in the form of solar grants ( first beneficiaries will doubtless be the groups behind the vast solar farms springing up everywhere but that is a separate topic)

in my industry, sinking an unregistered borehole and putting in a pump, a few solar panels and buried pipework more or less doubles the yield year on year. A no brainer except the farmers are sucking the aquifers dry. There are twelve within a mile radius of our house alone. All are without permission.

we are heading for a second successive poor olive harvest. Price of oil goes up and the local communities suffer. No money to spend.

I too have been following the Donana and the political debate is the bar topic. I suspect in five years the topic will be the same with everyone still hoping that it will rain next winter.
All good common sense points and I wholeheartedly agree with you, but sadly we have a president who said "I will be most remembered for exhuming the body of Franco". He flies down South in the presidential Falcon Jet and the presidential helicopter is flown down separately to take him from the airport to Doñana. He gets his photo opportunity and then claims green credentials....... Sadly, in an election year, the real money will only be spent on short term campaigns where votes can be won. Remember last years forest fires and how many promises were made about a national fire response unit and increased funding for UME? 12 months on, no news on either happening and the forest fires are already raging.

I love your phrase "opportunity to do something epic" but your pragmatic final sentence says it all...........
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Old May 11th 2023, 9:21 pm
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by olivefarmer
I am up in Galicia at the moment. Plenty of water here!
It has been dryer than normal here in Galicia too .

https://www.xunta.gal/notas-de-prens...uy-calido-seco
https://www.galiciapress.es/articulo...ealerta-sequia
https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...8515841858.htm
and we have already seen our fair share of fires in the countryside.
https://twitter.com/Incendiosgalic1
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Old May 11th 2023, 10:39 pm
  #78  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Casa Santo Estevo
So now is the time to purchase property or a home there as the south will be a waste land with salted drinking water - it is not very good....

Wait though, I do not know how the predicated "el nino" weather event will impact Spain this rest of the year & beyond....
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Old May 11th 2023, 11:38 pm
  #79  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Sounds epic, if they manage to do it...

Unprecedented €2.2bn drought response plan approved in Spain

Feijóo proposing a national water authority, isn't that what the Environment ministry is for? (If there were a national water authority already he'd be complaining about the bureaucracy...).

Last edited by DLC; May 11th 2023 at 11:44 pm.
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Old May 12th 2023, 12:05 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by DLC
Sounds epic, if they manage to do it...

Unprecedented €2.2bn drought response plan approved in Spain

Feijóo proposing a national water authority, isn't that what the Environment ministry is for? (If there were a national water authority already he'd be complaining about the bureaucracy...).
As always, the devil is in the detail. More than half of it is tax breaks to the farmers, so in other words, it´s not investment in infrastructure and does not help the water shortage. As it´s tax breaks, the government won´t have to pay anything out, and the effect will be on the tax income after the elections.We have to expect these kind of announcements in an election year.

In terms of real infrastructure investment, there only items seems to be a new total of 200 million euros in four desalination plants in Almeria, Alicante Malaga and Cataluña, and these will obviously be some time being built. The plan quotes a higher figure than 200 million euros, because in the plan the government is taking over already announced infrastructure projects that were previously budgeted for by the regions. One thing I´ve learnt over the years is in an election year to beware of the headlines, no matter which side of the political divide makes them!

EDIT: Just to give you my sources, which don't come from the press and are based on government web sites If you check out the MITECO plan on the government web site at https://www.miteco.gob.es/es/prensa/.../tcm:30-564745 you will see it includes 250 million for a desalination plant Tordera II in Catalunya. However, if you read it carefully it says "The government will assume responsibiity etc........". The Agencia Catalana de Agua had already announced this project some months back, so all the government has done is re-announce as a national plan what had already been budgeted for as a regional project. Smoke and mirrors politics.

Last edited by rbs_gb; May 12th 2023 at 1:20 am.
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Old May 12th 2023, 6:58 am
  #81  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by olivefarmer
I am up in Galicia at the moment. Plenty of water here!

Spain is at a crossroads in my view. Do something epic or let the desert claim the south.

The opportunity is there to do something epic. Eg A national water grid, massive desalination plants, regularisation of water usage. There is even huge amounts of money available in the form of the 70 billion of EU recovery grants. Sadly the latter will vanish into a few pockets in the form of solar grants ( first beneficiaries will doubtless be the groups behind the vast solar farms springing up everywhere but that is a separate topic)

in my industry, sinking an unregistered borehole and putting in a pump, a few solar panels and buried pipework more or less doubles the yield year on year. A no brainer except the farmers are sucking the aquifers dry. There are twelve within a mile radius of our house alone. All are without permission.

we are heading for a second successive poor olive harvest. Price of oil goes up and the local communities suffer. No money to spend.

I too have been following the Donana and the political debate is the bar topic. I suspect in five years the topic will be the same with everyone still hoping that it will rain next winter.
Well the north is suffering just as much as south...the agricultural workers were striking in Zaragoza last week..so it is most definitely a national problem.
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Old May 12th 2023, 7:03 am
  #82  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by rbs_gb
As always, the devil is in the detail. More than half of it is tax breaks to the farmers, so in other words, it´s not investment in infrastructure and does not help the water shortage. As it´s tax breaks, the government won´t have to pay anything out, and the effect will be on the tax income after the elections.We have to expect these kind of announcements in an election year.

In terms of real infrastructure investment, there only items seems to be a new total of 200 million euros in four desalination plants in Almeria, Alicante Malaga and Cataluña, and these will obviously be some time being built. The plan quotes a higher figure than 200 million euros, because in the plan the government is taking over already announced infrastructure projects that were previously budgeted for by the regions. One thing I´ve learnt over the years is in an election year to beware of the headlines, no matter which side of the political divide makes them!

EDIT: Just to give you my sources, which don't come from the press and are based on government web sites If you check out the MITECO plan on the government web site at https://www.miteco.gob.es/es/prensa/.../tcm:30-564745 you will see it includes 250 million for a desalination plant Tordera II in Catalunya. However, if you read it carefully it says "The government will assume responsibiity etc........". The Agencia Catalana de Agua had already announced this project some months back, so all the government has done is re-announce as a national plan what had already been budgeted for as a regional project. Smoke and mirrors politics.
Yes true. Yesterday's announcement was simply about compensating various sectors so it is not much of a long term system to tackle the problem. There was vague promise of new infrastructures but it is nothing but some wooly idea.
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Old May 12th 2023, 7:07 am
  #83  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Ronnyone
Well the north is suffering just as much as south...the agricultural workers were striking in Zaragoza last week..so it is most definitely a national problem.
Zaragoza is already next to a desert (Monegros) so the future doesn't look good for them however much they strike.
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Old May 12th 2023, 7:21 am
  #84  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by rbs_gb
EDIT: Just to give you my sources, which don't come from the press and are based on government web sites If you check out the MITECO plan on the government web site at https://www.miteco.gob.es/es/prensa/.../tcm:30-564745 you will see it includes 250 million for a desalination plant Tordera II in Catalunya. However, if you read it carefully it says "The government will assume responsibiity etc........". The Agencia Catalana de Agua had already announced this project some months back, so all the government has done is re-announce as a national plan what had already been budgeted for as a regional project. Smoke and mirrors politics.
If it means the money comes out the national budget instead of the regional budget, hopefully the money freed from the regional budget could be spent on other similar projects... (that's my quota of optimism used up for today)
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Old May 12th 2023, 8:30 am
  #85  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by DLC
Zaragoza is already next to a desert (Monegros) so the future doesn't look good for them however much they strike.
True and this is how Zaragoza looks like from above, surrounded by badlands.

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Old May 12th 2023, 9:00 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by DLC
If it means the money comes out the national budget instead of the regional budget, hopefully the money freed from the regional budget could be spent on other similar projects... (that's my quota of optimism used up for today)
Would be nice if that's true. That last bit made me smile. Suspect we might be on the same page of the sceptics manual.
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Old May 12th 2023, 9:20 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Moses2013
True and this is how Zaragoza looks like from above, surrounded by badlands.
Easy to tell where the Ebro flows!! Locals have a saying about Aragon....... "o jodido de frio o jodido de calor!" There is no in between it's either extreme heat or extreme cold.
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Old May 12th 2023, 9:29 am
  #88  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by rbs_gb
Easy to tell where the Ebro flows!! Locals have a saying about Aragon....... "o jodido de frio o jodido de calor!" There is no in between it's either extreme heat or extreme cold.
In comparison, our place is between Lloret and Macanet de la Selva. When you look up to Olot there is a saying "Si no plou a Olot, no plou enlloc " If it doesn't rain in Olot, it doesn't rain anywhere

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Old May 12th 2023, 9:45 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Nice area and I always think it a bit sad when so many people drive straight through Catalunya without stopping off at least to take in the Costa Brava. I lived in Barcelona in the 1980s and the Costa Brava was really rural. Many of the roads on that map did not exist, and the only roads of any significance were the A7 and the NII. The toll booths on the A7 had strategically placed local slip roads so that the locals did not have to pay tolls. If you knew what to do, you could save a fortune in motorway tolls!
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Old May 12th 2023, 11:10 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by rbs_gb
Nice area and I always think it a bit sad when so many people drive straight through Catalunya without stopping off at least to take in the Costa Brava. I lived in Barcelona in the 1980s and the Costa Brava was really rural. Many of the roads on that map did not exist, and the only roads of any significance were the A7 and the NII. The toll booths on the A7 had strategically placed local slip roads so that the locals did not have to pay tolls. If you knew what to do, you could save a fortune in motorway tolls!
True, although there are already enough Germans, Swiss, French & Dutch with their cars/campervans :-). For us it's ideal and as non permanent residents coming from Ireland easy to drive to, but prices along the coast have certainly increased over the years and you see more and more mansions being built. Although we belong to Lloret which is actually a huge area, we are closer to Vidreres and it was the only place closer to the coast that was affordable for us at the time. You can still get plots of land for 20-30K, they come with more building restrictions these days though. A lot of Brits probably drive along the AP-7 and only know the main resorts so will miss a lot of the real beauty that still exists. There are a lot of families who live and work in Barcelona and have small weekend plots around the urbanisations where we are. My favourite bit is the Baix Empordà and there you can still see the old fishing villages and although very busy in summer, the narrow roads and terrain make some places hard to get to, so they escaped the mass tourism you see in other parts.
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