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Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by olivefarmer
(Post 13192146)
I am up in Galicia at the moment. Plenty of water here!
Spain is at a crossroads in my view. Do something epic or let the desert claim the south. The opportunity is there to do something epic. Eg A national water grid, massive desalination plants, regularisation of water usage. There is even huge amounts of money available in the form of the 70 billion of EU recovery grants. Sadly the latter will vanish into a few pockets in the form of solar grants ( first beneficiaries will doubtless be the groups behind the vast solar farms springing up everywhere but that is a separate topic) in my industry, sinking an unregistered borehole and putting in a pump, a few solar panels and buried pipework more or less doubles the yield year on year. A no brainer except the farmers are sucking the aquifers dry. There are twelve within a mile radius of our house alone. All are without permission. we are heading for a second successive poor olive harvest. Price of oil goes up and the local communities suffer. No money to spend. I too have been following the Donana and the political debate is the bar topic. I suspect in five years the topic will be the same with everyone still hoping that it will rain next winter. I love your phrase "opportunity to do something epic" but your pragmatic final sentence says it all........... |
Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by olivefarmer
(Post 13192146)
I am up in Galicia at the moment. Plenty of water here!
https://www.xunta.gal/notas-de-prens...uy-calido-seco https://www.galiciapress.es/articulo...ealerta-sequia https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...8515841858.htm and we have already seen our fair share of fires in the countryside. https://twitter.com/Incendiosgalic1 |
Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by Casa Santo Estevo
(Post 13192182)
It has been dryer than normal here in Galicia too .
https://www.xunta.gal/notas-de-prens...uy-calido-seco https://www.galiciapress.es/articulo...ealerta-sequia https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...8515841858.htm and we have already seen our fair share of fires in the countryside. https://twitter.com/Incendiosgalic1 Wait though, I do not know how the predicated "el nino" weather event will impact Spain this rest of the year & beyond.... |
Re: Spains drying up
Sounds epic, if they manage to do it...
Unprecedented €2.2bn drought response plan approved in Spain Feijóo proposing a national water authority, isn't that what the Environment ministry is for? (If there were a national water authority already he'd be complaining about the bureaucracy...). |
Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by DLC
(Post 13192194)
Sounds epic, if they manage to do it...
Unprecedented €2.2bn drought response plan approved in Spain Feijóo proposing a national water authority, isn't that what the Environment ministry is for? (If there were a national water authority already he'd be complaining about the bureaucracy...). In terms of real infrastructure investment, there only items seems to be a new total of 200 million euros in four desalination plants in Almeria, Alicante Malaga and Cataluña, and these will obviously be some time being built. The plan quotes a higher figure than 200 million euros, because in the plan the government is taking over already announced infrastructure projects that were previously budgeted for by the regions. One thing I´ve learnt over the years is in an election year to beware of the headlines, no matter which side of the political divide makes them! EDIT: Just to give you my sources, which don't come from the press and are based on government web sites If you check out the MITECO plan on the government web site at https://www.miteco.gob.es/es/prensa/.../tcm:30-564745 you will see it includes 250 million for a desalination plant Tordera II in Catalunya. However, if you read it carefully it says "The government will assume responsibiity etc........". The Agencia Catalana de Agua had already announced this project some months back, so all the government has done is re-announce as a national plan what had already been budgeted for as a regional project. Smoke and mirrors politics. |
Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by olivefarmer
(Post 13192146)
I am up in Galicia at the moment. Plenty of water here!
Spain is at a crossroads in my view. Do something epic or let the desert claim the south. The opportunity is there to do something epic. Eg A national water grid, massive desalination plants, regularisation of water usage. There is even huge amounts of money available in the form of the 70 billion of EU recovery grants. Sadly the latter will vanish into a few pockets in the form of solar grants ( first beneficiaries will doubtless be the groups behind the vast solar farms springing up everywhere but that is a separate topic) in my industry, sinking an unregistered borehole and putting in a pump, a few solar panels and buried pipework more or less doubles the yield year on year. A no brainer except the farmers are sucking the aquifers dry. There are twelve within a mile radius of our house alone. All are without permission. we are heading for a second successive poor olive harvest. Price of oil goes up and the local communities suffer. No money to spend. I too have been following the Donana and the political debate is the bar topic. I suspect in five years the topic will be the same with everyone still hoping that it will rain next winter. |
Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by rbs_gb
(Post 13192196)
As always, the devil is in the detail. More than half of it is tax breaks to the farmers, so in other words, it´s not investment in infrastructure and does not help the water shortage. As it´s tax breaks, the government won´t have to pay anything out, and the effect will be on the tax income after the elections.We have to expect these kind of announcements in an election year.
In terms of real infrastructure investment, there only items seems to be a new total of 200 million euros in four desalination plants in Almeria, Alicante Malaga and Cataluña, and these will obviously be some time being built. The plan quotes a higher figure than 200 million euros, because in the plan the government is taking over already announced infrastructure projects that were previously budgeted for by the regions. One thing I´ve learnt over the years is in an election year to beware of the headlines, no matter which side of the political divide makes them! EDIT: Just to give you my sources, which don't come from the press and are based on government web sites If you check out the MITECO plan on the government web site at https://www.miteco.gob.es/es/prensa/.../tcm:30-564745 you will see it includes 250 million for a desalination plant Tordera II in Catalunya. However, if you read it carefully it says "The government will assume responsibiity etc........". The Agencia Catalana de Agua had already announced this project some months back, so all the government has done is re-announce as a national plan what had already been budgeted for as a regional project. Smoke and mirrors politics. |
Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by Ronnyone
(Post 13192213)
Well the north is suffering just as much as south...the agricultural workers were striking in Zaragoza last week..so it is most definitely a national problem.
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Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by rbs_gb
(Post 13192196)
EDIT: Just to give you my sources, which don't come from the press and are based on government web sites If you check out the MITECO plan on the government web site at https://www.miteco.gob.es/es/prensa/.../tcm:30-564745 you will see it includes 250 million for a desalination plant Tordera II in Catalunya. However, if you read it carefully it says "The government will assume responsibiity etc........". The Agencia Catalana de Agua had already announced this project some months back, so all the government has done is re-announce as a national plan what had already been budgeted for as a regional project. Smoke and mirrors politics.
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Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by DLC
(Post 13192216)
Zaragoza is already next to a desert (Monegros) so the future doesn't look good for them however much they strike.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...de02848a70.jpg |
Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by DLC
(Post 13192217)
If it means the money comes out the national budget instead of the regional budget, hopefully the money freed from the regional budget could be spent on other similar projects... (that's my quota of optimism used up for today)
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Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by Moses2013
(Post 13192224)
True and this is how Zaragoza looks like from above, surrounded by badlands.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...de02848a70.jpg |
Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by rbs_gb
(Post 13192231)
Easy to tell where the Ebro flows!! Locals have a saying about Aragon....... "o jodido de frio o jodido de calor!" There is no in between it's either extreme heat or extreme cold.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...7865ea2f24.jpg |
Re: Spains drying up
Nice area and I always think it a bit sad when so many people drive straight through Catalunya without stopping off at least to take in the Costa Brava. I lived in Barcelona in the 1980s and the Costa Brava was really rural. Many of the roads on that map did not exist, and the only roads of any significance were the A7 and the NII. The toll booths on the A7 had strategically placed local slip roads so that the locals did not have to pay tolls. If you knew what to do, you could save a fortune in motorway tolls!
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Re: Spains drying up
Originally Posted by rbs_gb
(Post 13192240)
Nice area and I always think it a bit sad when so many people drive straight through Catalunya without stopping off at least to take in the Costa Brava. I lived in Barcelona in the 1980s and the Costa Brava was really rural. Many of the roads on that map did not exist, and the only roads of any significance were the A7 and the NII. The toll booths on the A7 had strategically placed local slip roads so that the locals did not have to pay tolls. If you knew what to do, you could save a fortune in motorway tolls!
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