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Spains drying up

Spains drying up

Old Apr 27th 2023, 6:21 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

"Why didn't I move closer to London? Have you ever seen the difference in house prices between Lancashire and anywhere within commuting distance of London?"

So your husband was unable to get to work using public transport, you bought a car and you chose to stay where you live.
Ten years ago there was a quite regular bus service near where my house is but as with many things, it was ended as it was too expensive to keep running.
I am unable to get to the supermarket/doctor/essential travel using public transport so I bought a car and choose to stay where I live - rather than moving house to somewhere, as with you, which would have been far more expensive.
Can't see the difference.
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Old Apr 27th 2023, 6:48 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

The climate has always been fickle & always will be.
I believe in Spain one of the problems of having to adapt to climate change is much more long term. It involves crops. In the wrong place. Strawberries in Huelva are a case in point. They consume huge amounts of water merely to provide all year round fruit. Often tasteless. And of course their fields are close to Donaña.
Farmers with arable land cannot leave it all fallow indefinitely; they have to grow something in order to make a living and to keep the land in good condition. But they are at the mercy of the large supermarkets who control the price. Farmers cannot dictate the price for their produce anymore.
So, they grow crops that may have a subsidy linked to them. Or are a novelty, such as avocados or pistachios. Castilla is the 'breadbasket' of Spain, but it comes at a price; many farmers have to irrigate their cereal crops, something unheard of in Britain. And all for a mere tonne to the hectare. In Britain the average yield is around 4 tonnes per ha.
But what else can Spanish farmers grow? Plant breeders are constantly striving to engineer drought-resistant crops, but it's a very long process, 10 years at least.
The problem needs to go to the top....Brussels. And Ministries of Agriculture ought to be among the most important in any government.
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Old Apr 27th 2023, 8:25 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Retired in Euskadi
The climate has always been fickle & always will be.
I believe in Spain one of the problems of having to adapt to climate change is much more long term. It involves crops. In the wrong place. Strawberries in Huelva are a case in point. They consume huge amounts of water merely to provide all year round fruit. Often tasteless. And of course their fields are close to Donaña.
Farmers with arable land cannot leave it all fallow indefinitely; they have to grow something in order to make a living and to keep the land in good condition. But they are at the mercy of the large supermarkets who control the price. Farmers cannot dictate the price for their produce anymore.
So, they grow crops that may have a subsidy linked to them. Or are a novelty, such as avocados or pistachios. Castilla is the 'breadbasket' of Spain, but it comes at a price; many farmers have to irrigate their cereal crops, something unheard of in Britain. And all for a mere tonne to the hectare. In Britain the average yield is around 4 tonnes per ha.
But what else can Spanish farmers grow? Plant breeders are constantly striving to engineer drought-resistant crops, but it's a very long process, 10 years at least.
The problem needs to go to the top....Brussels. And Ministries of Agriculture ought to be among the most important in any government.
Spain needs to seriously diversify its economy
The Agricultural state is a throw back to the Franco years where communes were designed to support distinct parts of the population. There are still some of these villages in existence which you can visit. From this they developed into mass Agricultural for exports and this led to the sea of plastic tunnels you see when driving in the south. Climate change might appear fickle to one individual but it is uncontestable now that it is changing and that it is a result of man not nature. The drought this year is going to be the nail in the coffin for spains farmers. The idea that they will drain Doñana to help irrigate farms will not happen as the EU has made it clear that preserving nature trumps economy. PP can peddle is climate- denial position as much as it wants( besides we all no its simply an election tactic to attract VOX voters for May election) but it won't upset Brussels in the long run. What Spain needs to do is invest heavily in new business not rely on tourism and agricultural. Its a lazy system that basically resists change. They need to stop the brain drain and high graduate unemployment for a start and look to more technology based industry. The present system is going to ruin the country
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Old Apr 27th 2023, 8:54 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Ronnyone
You post great links Lynn. I love these slightly querky stories about things Spanish. They are a great way to spend 10 minutes improving my Spanish instead of reading stuff translated into English. Everyone can get a bit from these things even if it's just learning stuff like words for Ants, forecast, drought, earth, rain. Keep posting them, please. We live in Spain and should make an effort to learn some of the language and culture.
Thank you, I try to read as much as I can of Spanish news stories and I learn new words every day, when I come across something I don't know the meaning of I look it up and try to memorise it.
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Old Apr 27th 2023, 8:59 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Moses2013
Of course I've seen the difference and just showing the argument you make can just be turned around. You jumped onto a comment that had nothing to do with you personally and were trying to make an argument. Yes, I like driving to places here in Ireland and when I'm in Spain I enjoy my holiday, but there's a lot more that contributes to CO2 emissions than 2 people in a car. As I said, at least I planted thousands of wildflowers and planted trees in our garden. Next we can look at how we consume (makeup, food, clothing etc.).
By the way, did you know that a car ferry generates twice as much CO2 emissions per passenger kilometres than a flight?

Train, car or plane? | Travel & climate (travelandclimate.org)

We have trees in our garden too (large mature ones). But we share the garden with 39 other apartments, we don't feel the need for a plot of land for our exclusive use, let alone two of them in separate countries.
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Old Apr 27th 2023, 9:46 pm
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Lynn R
By the way, did you know that a car ferry generates twice as much CO2 emissions per passenger kilometres than a flight?

Train, car or plane? | Travel & climate (travelandclimate.org)

We have trees in our garden too (large mature ones). But we share the garden with 39 other apartments, we don't feel the need for a plot of land for our exclusive use, let alone two of them in separate countries.
Actually incorrect and if you look it up the Salamanca is also now an LNG-powered ferry. The ferry goes anyway as it's mainly used for freight to deliver you food, but the passenger plane is for passengers and only has very little freight so another flight needed. Well see, I rather share my land with 39 butterflies instead of 39 other families. Here one of your quotes in other thread, so please stop as I never managed to take 2 trips to the UK + 3 holidays a year
Originally Posted by Lynn R
We don't need to spend a great deal of money on day to day expenses (we don't have a car, for instance, as we live somewhere with excellent public transport links). But living a simple life just paying the bills and going out once a week would, for me, get pretty boring once the novelty of not having to go to work every day wore off. Before the pandemic I always travelled back to the UK twice a year to see family and friends, and we went away for holidays usually 3 times a year as well, sometimes just within Spain where there is so much to see, and sometimes further afield just for a change of scene.

Last edited by Moses2013; Apr 27th 2023 at 9:53 pm.
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Old Apr 28th 2023, 3:18 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Wow there are some green eyed monsters on this one, picking on the person who dares to choose where she spends her cash and how she travels.
The empty plane is the same as the empty train or ferry. It’s still going there so you may as well get on it if it’s convenient for you.
I suppose I can be smug for a few moments as I’m on the tram, about to get on a YEGO. I’ve also flown about 22k km this month
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Old Apr 28th 2023, 3:30 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by SanNico
Wow there are some green eyed monsters on this one, picking on the person who dares to choose where she spends her cash and how she travels.
The empty plane is the same as the empty train or ferry. It’s still going there so you may as well get on it if it’s convenient for you.
I suppose I can be smug for a few moments as I’m on the tram, about to get on a YEGO. I’ve also flown about 22k km this month
I didn't start it😜.
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Old Apr 28th 2023, 11:39 pm
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Default Re: Spains drying up

I just checked a few facts and offer the following:

The weight of a Boing 737-800 is 41400 kgs. The maximum payload is about 22000kgs, but lets take for argument 150 passengers at an average of 100kg each including luggage, so we say the load being carried is 15000kg and the gross weight of the aircraft is now 56400 kgs.

The weight of the aircraft and it's fuel consumption are pretty much a linear relationship, so, if one person decides to make only one flight a year instead of two, have they really "halved" their carbon footprint? The aircraft would still have flown, probably with just one extra empty seat.
The effect is only about 1/564 of the fuel consumption and probably the same amount in effect on emissions.

Edit: Before anyone accuses me of being a negationist on climate change, no I'm not. The point of my post is that only by cutting down the number of flights will there be any significant change. Individuals can only make such tiny differences they are to all intents and purposes insignificant. So when the world leaders attend climate change conferences in Paris, Bali, Sharm el Sheik and Glasgow using thousands of flights maybe we should just point a finger and say "hypocrites". Take a look at this link which summarises the flights used for Glasgow at Cop26

http://www.scottishairnews.com/cop26-movements.html



Last edited by rbs_gb; Apr 29th 2023 at 12:11 am.
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Old Apr 29th 2023, 1:18 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

We shan't have to go back to the UK for a funeral as the relative concerned opted for a direct cremation, so there won't be one. That'll keep my carbon footprint for the year a bit lower.
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Old Apr 29th 2023, 1:43 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by rbs_gb
I just checked a few facts and offer the following:

The weight of a Boing 737-800 is 41400 kgs. The maximum payload is about 22000kgs, but lets take for argument 150 passengers at an average of 100kg each including luggage, so we say the load being carried is 15000kg and the gross weight of the aircraft is now 56400 kgs.

The weight of the aircraft and it's fuel consumption are pretty much a linear relationship, so, if one person decides to make only one flight a year instead of two, have they really "halved" their carbon footprint? The aircraft would still have flown, probably with just one extra empty seat.
The effect is only about 1/564 of the fuel consumption and probably the same amount in effect on emissions.

Edit: Before anyone accuses me of being a negationist on climate change, no I'm not. The point of my post is that only by cutting down the number of flights will there be any significant change. Individuals can only make such tiny differences they are to all intents and purposes insignificant. So when the world leaders attend climate change conferences in Paris, Bali, Sharm el Sheik and Glasgow using thousands of flights maybe we should just point a finger and say "hypocrites". Take a look at this link which summarises the flights used for Glasgow at Cop26

COP26 Movements
not flying or driving isn’t going to do a thing. Humans need to do radical things like block out the sunlight by using atmospheric particles or pumping stuff into the sea to get the microorganisms living that take in CO2. Just think how much Co2 the ukraine war has created.It’s just crazy how fast climate change has gripped Spain. Can humans even live there if there is no water. It’s scary times.
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Old Apr 29th 2023, 1:49 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Lynn R
We shan't have to go back to the UK for a funeral as the relative concerned opted for a direct cremation, so there won't be one. That'll keep my carbon footprint for the year a bit lower.
A direct green burial is a better bet at 12kg of CO2 as opposed to 200kg for a cremation.200kg is equivalent to driving 500miles.
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Old Apr 29th 2023, 1:51 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by philat98
A direct green burial is a better bet at 12kg of CO2 as opposed to 200kg for a cremation.200kg is equivalent to driving 500miles.
That's what I'd prefer for myself, but as far as I know they are not allowed in Spain.

Srub that, yes they are but not very widely available as yet.

Is it possible to have an eco-friendly funeral in Spain? - Euro Weekly News

Last edited by Lynn R; Apr 29th 2023 at 1:56 am.
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Old Apr 29th 2023, 3:10 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by rbs_gb


Individuals can only make such tiny differences they are to all intents and purposes insignificant. So when the world leaders attend climate change conferences in Paris, Bali, Sharm el Sheik and Glasgow using thousands of flights maybe we should just point a finger and say "hypocrites". Take a look at this link which summarises the flights used for Glasgow at Cop26

COP26 Movements
It's always a case of do as we say not do as we do with the rich, famous and powerful. Barack Obama, Steven Spielberg and their wives, and no doubt entourages of staff. flew into Barcelona on Thursday to see their friend Bruce Springsteen's concert there the next day., and no doubt they were in First Class or even a private jet so the emissions would have been higher. But the plebs are not supposed to fly for a 2 week holiday. I wonder why we bother worrying about it.

Dream dinner party guests: Obama, Springsteen and Spielberg delight Barcelona restaurant staff | Barcelona | The Guardian

Last edited by Lynn R; Apr 29th 2023 at 3:35 am.
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Old Apr 29th 2023, 3:48 am
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Default Re: Spains drying up

Originally Posted by Lynn R
It's always a case of do as we say not do as we do with the rich, famous and powerful. Barack Obama, Steven Spielberg and their wives, and no doubt entourages of staff. flew into Barcelona on Thursday to see their friend Bruce Springsteen's concert there the next day., and no doubt they were in First Class or even a private jet so the emissions would have been higher. But the plebs are not supposed to fly for a 2 week holiday. I wonder why we bother worrying about it.

Dream dinner party guests: Obama, Springsteen and Spielberg delight Barcelona restaurant staff | Barcelona | The Guardian
Too true. And I suspect you are being generous saying they travelled first class on some commercial airline. Private jets most likely?
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