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Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Old Sep 27th 2010, 12:48 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Immigrants aren't just trying to get to Spain...they are trying to enter Europe!
Exactly, it's a back door into Europe, their nearest point of access. A lot stay in Spain, a lot don't. No different to all those arriving in Italy from across the water.
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 1:58 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Whenever I return to the UK and meet up with friends from younger days, I always wonder why they are not interested when I tell them how I'm enjoying life in Spain. It used to bother me, there we were siting in some grubby pub with rain splashing against the windows and drinking that awful real ale, and I'm missing my Spanish terrace with a view of the sea and an ice cold bottle of San Miguel in front of me.

It finally came to me when I was talking to a pal from my schooldays. He had never been to Spain, in fact he had never been anywhere. He was happy as Larry in his little world of rain and warm beer.

You can't miss something you don't know about, can you?
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 2:13 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by agoreira
Exactly, it's a back door into Europe, their nearest point of access. A lot stay in Spain, a lot don't. No different to all those arriving in Italy from across the water.
Is there any evidence for this? I ask because although it seems logical, I've never come across a migrant in the UK who'd used Italy or Spain as a back door. I've met migrants who've come in illegally to the UK btw., but never via Italy or Spain. Maybe they use the route to go to Germany or Holland?
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 2:15 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by HBG
Whenever I return to the UK and meet up with friends from younger days, I always wonder why they are not interested when I tell them how I'm enjoying life in Spain. It used to bother me, there we were siting in some grubby pub with rain splashing against the windows and drinking that awful real ale, and I'm missing my Spanish terrace with a view of the sea and an ice cold bottle of San Miguel in front of me.

It finally came to me when I was talking to a pal from my schooldays. He had never been to Spain, in fact he had never been anywhere. He was happy as Larry in his little world of rain and warm beer.

You can't miss something you don't know about, can you?
Careful, you'll have Matt and his real ale gang, telling us it's far better than continental lagers... I prefer German wheat beer myself but can normally source whichever country I find myself. Even Tescos sell it nowadays.
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 3:36 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
Is there any evidence for this? I ask because although it seems logical, I've never come across a migrant in the UK who'd used Italy or Spain as a back door. I've met migrants who've come in illegally to the UK btw., but never via Italy or Spain. Maybe they use the route to go to Germany or Holland?

How many migrants have you met to get into conversation about how they got a foothold in Europe Most of them don't even speak English! It was claimed that ZP did a clever move when he gave thousands papers as they promptly left Spain and went to benefitland
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 3:48 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
Is there any evidence for this? I ask because although it seems logical, I've never come across a migrant in the UK who'd used Italy or Spain as a back door. I've met migrants who've come in illegally to the UK btw., but never via Italy or Spain. Maybe they use the route to go to Germany or Holland?
Just because you have never met anyone, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can remember many EU countries up in arms, especially France, about Spain legalising so many immigrants several years ago, once they were legal, they headed north.
Not just France, but other European governments, too, have been
highly critical of the massive regularization in Spain.......

Spain just cannot cope with the thousands of illegal immigrants arriving each week and the criminal organizations are very well aware of this. A number of these illegal immigrants stay in Spain, many others travel to other European countries, especially to France, Belgium, the Netherlands
and Britain.“The mafias have converted Spain into an authentic paradise
for themselves,” commented opposition leader Mario Rajoy.
http://www.emersonvermaat.com/essay/africa-essay.pdf
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 4:12 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by jackytoo
How many migrants have you met to get into conversation about how they got a foothold in Europe Most of them don't even speak English! It was claimed that ZP did a clever move when he gave thousands papers as they promptly left Spain and went to benefitland
I've met plenty of migrants in both Spain (obviously we spoke in Spanish most of the time, although I did come across a couple in English classes) and also in the UK where I know quite a lot who qualified as refugees - mainly coming from countries where the UK had been involved with eg Zimbabwe, Iraq. The reason you or Agoreira will not be able to produce evidence that migrants entering Spain do so to head towards the UK, is because (believe it or not) it's actually too hard to get into the UK from that direction. I can well believe some of them will head to Benelux, Germany from Spain. Having said that, plenty of them do stay and settle in Spain, I'm not sure why, as any decent jobs are not available for them. There again huge numbers have come to Spain from Ecuador, Rumania, Colombia - you can see the numbers who have become resident from the link given above. I may be wrong but I would guess 90%+ of those actually wanted to make a go of it in Spain. Whether or not it proved to be a wise choice is a different matter of course.
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by agoreira
Just because you have never met anyone, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Well I didn't say it couldn't happen, just taking issue with your "lots" when you've yet to give evidence of one person doing this - I'm sure it does happen, but hardly in your "lots" quote. The illegal migrants to the UK tend (in the past) to have entered in vans originating from central/Eastern Europe. Your link seems to point out the criminal gangs involved in moving people, which although is a very important issue is another argument.
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 5:08 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by jackytoo
How many migrants have you met to get into conversation about how they got a foothold in Europe Most of them don't even speak English! It was claimed that ZP did a clever move when he gave thousands papers as they promptly left Spain and went to benefitland
Why are there 5 million immigrants in Spain now then, when 10 years ago there were less than 1 million?
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 5:17 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

At the risk of being shouted down again for "hating" Spain as a few idiots like to call it, simply for giving MY opinion.

I think one of the most important factors about Spanish living is the weather,
as somone who was born in one of the "colder and rainier" parts of Spain, I do know what I am talking about.
Terraces in Galicia are used for a very short season, and the terraces seems to be a big selling point for "living the dream".

Given the choice between a cold miserable winter in Galicia, or a cold miserable winter in the UK, I would chose the UK everytime.

People seem to forget that Valencia and CDS are only a small part of a vast country. and the climate in other parts of the country is not so hospitable and is more similar to the UK than it is to Valencia.
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 5:23 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by JLFS
At the risk of being shouted down again for "hating" Spain as a few idiots like to call it, simply for giving MY opinion.

I think one of the most important factors about Spanish living is the weather,
as somone who was born in one of the "colder and rainier" parts of Spain, I do know what I am talking about.
Terraces in Galicia are used for a very short season, and the terraces seems to be a big selling point for "living the dream".

Given the choice between a cold miserable winter in Galicia, or a cold miserable winter in the UK, I would chose the UK everytime.

People seem to forget that Valencia and CDS are only a small part of a vast country. and the climate in other parts of the country is not so hospitable and is more similar to the UK than it is to Valencia.
If I could live anywhere in the world it would be Asturias. And it is very rainy there.

Unfortunately, there arent many jobs there and without jobs, there is no life! We do have a contingency plan but it may take a few years to realise.

Btw, I just turned down a job in Valencia, we didnt like the city at all. A couple of people we met there said it's Camps fault, he's destroyed it
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by cricketman
If I could live anywhere in the world it would be Asturias. And it is very rainy there.

Unfortunately, there arent many jobs there and without jobs, there is no life! We do have a contingency plan but it may take a few years to realise.

Btw, I just turned down a job in Valencia, we didnt like the city at all. A couple of people we met there said it's Camps fault, he's destroyed it
Well, even you must admit that while Asturias is your ideal place to live, it is not that way for most British people.

Most British are attracted to Spain for sunnier climes and one of the reasons the give for wantting to leave the UK is the rain and cold.
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by JLFS
At the risk of being shouted down again for "hating" Spain as a few idiots like to call it, simply for giving MY opinion.

I think one of the most important factors about Spanish living is the weather,
as somone who was born in one of the "colder and rainier" parts of Spain, I do know what I am talking about.
Terraces in Galicia are used for a very short season, and the terraces seems to be a big selling point for "living the dream".

Given the choice between a cold miserable winter in Galicia, or a cold miserable winter in the UK, I would chose the UK everytime.

People seem to forget that Valencia and CDS are only a small part of a vast country. and the climate in other parts of the country is not so hospitable and is more similar to the UK than it is to Valencia.
I don't know the exact figures, but I would guess that if you totalled the number of Brits living in Galicia, Aragon, Asturias, basque Country, Castilla-Leon and Castilla-La Mancha, it would still be a very small number. Funnily enough I could live in one of those zones if I won the lottery and could afford the heating (there is some great countryside and historic cities there), but yes, the climate in large parts of Spain is a lot harsher than most of us realise.
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 5:40 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by cricketman
If I could live anywhere in the world it would be Asturias. And it is very rainy there.

Unfortunately, there arent many jobs there and without jobs, there is no life! We do have a contingency plan but it may take a few years to realise.

Btw, I just turned down a job in Valencia, we didnt like the city at all. A couple of people we met there said it's Camps fault, he's destroyed it
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Old Sep 27th 2010, 5:58 pm
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Default Re: Spain is the second best place to live in Europe

Originally Posted by HBG
Whenever I return to the UK and meet up with friends from younger days, I always wonder why they are not interested when I tell them how I'm enjoying life in Spain. It used to bother me, there we were siting in some grubby pub with rain splashing against the windows and drinking that awful real ale, and I'm missing my Spanish terrace with a view of the sea and an ice cold bottle of San Miguel in front of me.

It finally came to me when I was talking to a pal from my schooldays. He had never been to Spain, in fact he had never been anywhere. He was happy as Larry in his little world of rain and warm beer.

You can't miss something you don't know about, can you?
I agree... Spain/Portugal is mainly wonderful from May until November (maybe excluding the over hot days in August) . However I'd rather be a little chilly and damp in Northern Europe for the rest where the buildings are designed and built to cope with the cooler months. Not shivering without my winter fleece in Spain/Portugal!
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