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Is Spain really as bad as they say

Is Spain really as bad as they say

Old May 12th 2012, 7:15 am
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by JLFS
The answer to you question is yes and no...........

I dont mind people coming to Spain without a word of Spanish and who have no serious ambition to learn if they are happy to live here and spend their last years enjoying the sun, spending their pensions, living a happy life, hurting no one, what is wrong with that.

After all a lot of places in Spain have been especially built with those folks in mind, why not just enjoy the weather and facilities on offer without the stress of learning the subjunctive.

On the other hand, there are plenty with school age children, who expect them to end up educated without any parental input, expecting their kids to pick up the language when their parents dont mix, or exposes themselves to Spanish at all.



Then they blame the Spanish system for failing to equip their kids for a life in the Spanish speaking adult world, when in most cases it is the parents fault.

These are the people who should be made to learn Spanish,if only for their kids sake.

It is nice when people learn the language of the country they choose to live in, but I will never find myself getting pissed off by seeing a load of Brit pensioners enjoying themselves at bingo, karaoke, strolling along the prom,etc.

Life is all about making the most of it while you can, and if tending to the garden is more important than learning Spanish to independent people with an income that they are spending in Spainm who are not looking for anymore than they already have, who am I to disagree with their chioces.
Yes i get what you are saying. I suppose there is a big difference between those of retiring age who are just coming here to have a nice relaxing life, and those (like myself) who come here with young kids to build a life for themselves. There are too many eastern europeans in Ireland (where im from) who have school going kids and think that once their kids are speaking the language, they don't need to. It pisses me off that they have that attitude, so I presume the spanish have the same opinions. I know when I came here last year, I got an amount of dirty looks and negative comments from the spanish for the 1st month or 2 because I barely had a word. Now 10 months on my spanish is improving alot (though nowhere near fluent) and I find that the dirty looks have turned into smiling encouraging faces!
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Old May 12th 2012, 8:04 am
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Spain has a lot in common with Ireland, not greece, at the present time. A mad mad runaway housing construction boom fuelled by the greed of the banks and the politicos. Has Spain anything in common with the UK ? Yes, both are countries who still think they are grand European entities, but who are in reality fast becoming mere sources of cheap labour. Still used (but on an ever lessening scale) by global giants as manufacturing bases for cars and such; both countries will be dropped like hot bricks if access for their products to the EU becomes in anyway more restricted.
In that painful event .... both countries, both now devoid of any manufacturing base (mention me an actual 'Brit' car plant still domiciled in the UK ..!!?? ... that would not leave those shores at the drop of a hat five minutes after the chips were down ) WILL become, along with greece, the new european third world fringe .... like rumania, bulgaria and the Ukraine is to Russia.
---
When did Franco pass away ? .... strangely enough, I read into the nuances of Relampago words a strange longing for the unmentionable .....
One thing about Franco he had nothing against UK pensioners flocking to his shores .... it was only in aftermath of that gentle reintroduction of Spain back into the European fold ..... and the swallowing hook line and sinker ever changing and 'transient' western mores & costumbres, that all financial hell broke loose and Spain led itself by the nose into a cul-de-sac trap. However, nature has it that come the time, cometh the man .... not necessarily another Franco ? ... but .... well, what ever happened to that nice Mr Tejero ... I have seen those bullet holes he made in the Cortes ceiling .... maybe he'd be the man ...
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Old May 12th 2012, 8:09 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by pixieve
Doesn't it piss you off when foreigners come to your country and don't speak a word of English!? I think it's pure ignorance to settle in a country and not make an effort to learn the language. But i guess if you are planning on returning to the UK and only staying here a short time then it's not necessary.
Well said
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Old May 12th 2012, 8:39 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by JLFS
The answer to you question is yes and no...........

I dont mind people coming to Spain without a word of Spanish and who have no serious ambition to learn if they are happy to live here and spend their last years enjoying the sun, spending their pensions, living a happy life, hurting no one, what is wrong with that.

After all a lot of places in Spain have been especially built with those folks in mind, why not just enjoy the weather and facilities on offer without the stress of learning the subjunctive.

On the other hand, there are plenty with school age children, who expect them to end up educated without any parental input, expecting their kids to pick up the language when their parents dont mix, or exposes themselves to Spanish at all.
That puts another perspective but i do think its not right to be only in your eUK community


Then they blame the Spanish system for failing to equip their kids for a life in the Spanish speaking adult world, when in most cases it is the parents fault.

These are the people who should be made to learn Spanish,if only for their kids sake.

It is nice when people learn the language of the country they choose to live in, but I will never find myself getting pissed off by seeing a load of Brit pensioners enjoying themselves at bingo, karaoke, strolling along the prom,etc.:
Life is all about making the most of it while you can, and if tending to the garden is more important than learning Spanish to independent people with an income that they are spending in Spainm who are not looking for anymore than they already have, who am I to disagree with their chioces.
A great perspective, but i dont think all spanish people feel this way??
( answering two posts in one) ,my spanish friend said her family thought things were better under Francos rule
L,ess crime could leave your hand bag and go back it would still be there.
Just a comment made in conversation but interesting.
I still think its better to become more intergrated if possible of course will always be a brit.But its nice to show repect for host country that gives you a fabulous quality of life /

Last edited by DENISE WALTERS; May 12th 2012 at 8:48 am. Reason: added comment
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Old May 12th 2012, 9:17 am
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by DENISE WALTERS
,my spanish friend said her family thought things were better under Francos rule
L,ess crime could leave your hand bag and go back it would still be there.
Just a comment made in conversation but interesting.
Indeed interesting, especially considering under Franco ....
Women had very few civil liberties; they were only allowed to be housewives and were not permitted to hold jobs or opinions for that matter. Their role was to stay silent in their husbands’ shadows, taking care of the house and children.
During Franco's years, Spanish law discriminated strongly against married women. Without her husband's approval, referred to as the permiso marital, a wife was prohibited from almost all economic activities, including employment, ownership of property, or even travel away from home. The law also provided for less stringent definitions of such crimes as adultery and desertion for husbands than it did for wives
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Old May 12th 2012, 9:33 am
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by DENISE WALTERS
A great perspective, but i dont think all spanish people feel this way??
( answering two posts in one) ,my spanish friend said her family thought things were better under Francos rule
L,ess crime could leave your hand bag and go back it would still be there.
Just a comment made in conversation but interesting.
I still think its better to become more intergrated if possible of course will always be a brit.But its nice to show repect for host country that gives you a fabulous quality of life /
I can assure you that most dont feel that way, no more than Germans feel it was better with little Adolph at the helm.
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Old May 12th 2012, 9:38 am
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by DENISE WALTERS
A great perspective, but i dont think all spanish people feel this way??
( answering two posts in one) ,my spanish friend said her family thought things were better under Francos rule
L,ess crime could leave your hand bag and go back it would still be there.
Just a comment made in conversation but interesting.
I still think its better to become more intergrated if possible of course will always be a brit.But its nice to show repect for host country that gives you a fabulous quality of life /
Of course it is nice to show respect for the country you have chosen, but to be blunt, the Spanish population prefer to see the colour of the incomers money than their ability to "roll their RRs",

Quite frankly most Spanish never come into contact with British expats and dont give them a second thought, but if you asked them their opinion of pensioners living in Spain most would think that they are at worst a lesser evil than say, Romanians, South Americans and other nationalities who usually dont come with independant means or pensions, and are in direct competition for jobs.

The population of any country is not so bothered about the language skills of the "incomers" they are more interested in the money they bring into the country so that they will not be a drain, even more so in times of cutbacks and hardship.

Same in the UK, I am sure the rich arabs buying the multi million pound pads in Mayfair are thought of differenly than econimic migrants taking low paid jobs and top up benefits.

Same here in Spain, given the choice I would rather have a large number of financially independant Brit expats who dont speak a word of Spanish, and have their health care paid for by their own country, than have a large group of fully fluent EEs who arrive without a bean, and are competing with the locals and in most cases undercutting them for jobs.

Some posters on here will not agree, but that is basically the opinion of most Spanish, and if most British people are honest, they would like a scheme like Austrailia whereby only "incomers" with financial clout are allowed into the country and not the "benefit seeking" masses, that are attracted to the UK for that reason.

Running a country is like having a hotel, why would anyone prefer or want to have guests who cannot pay for their bed, board and living expenses?

Financial suicide for a hotel and for a country.
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Old May 12th 2012, 10:22 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by cricketman
I never knew that was the definition of a good person
Not the definition of a bad person either now is it. Now my health is on the mend I'll be in Gran Canaria a few months of the year but won't learn Spanish, I've no need, I can go shopping, go out to restaurants etc and English is spoken to a standard that lets me live my life day to day. I don't search out the company of brits, I'm happy with my own company, a good book and the radio. If my neighbours are non English speaking Spanish then our communication will be a nod and a smile, if they are German we can have a bit of a chat.

I like Spain, especially the Canary Islands, love the weather, the people seem happy enough but I've no desire or need to integrate. I've a loving family, a circle of close friends (who will visit) and am generally considered to be a good sort of chap...even though I don't 'hablar español'
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Old May 12th 2012, 10:23 am
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by JLFS
Of course it is nice to show respect for the country you have chosen, but to be blunt, the Spanish population prefer to see the colour of the incomers money than their ability to "roll their RRs",

Quite frankly most Spanish never come into contact with British expats and dont give them a second thought, but if you asked them their opinion of pensioners living in Spain most would think that they are at worst a lesser evil than say, Romanians, South Americans and other nationalities who usually dont come with independant means or pensions, and are in direct competition for jobs.

The population of any country is not so bothered about the language skills of the "incomers" they are more interested in the money they bring into the country so that they will not be a drain, even more so in times of cutbacks and hardship.

Same in the UK, I am sure the rich arabs buying the multi million pound pads in Mayfair are thought of differenly than econimic migrants taking low paid jobs and top up benefits.

Same here in Spain, given the choice I would rather have a large number of financially independant Brit expats who dont speak a word of Spanish, and have their health care paid for by their own country, than have a large group of fully fluent EEs who arrive without a bean, and are competing with the locals and in most cases undercutting them for jobs.

Some posters on here will not agree, but that is basically the opinion of most Spanish, and if most British people are honest, they would like a scheme like Austrailia whereby only "incomers" with financial clout are allowed into the country and not the "benefit seeking" masses, that are attracted to the UK for that reason.

Running a country is like having a hotel, why would anyone prefer or want to have guests who cannot pay for their bed, board and living expenses?

Financial suicide for a hotel and for a country.
Yes it does seem that the columbians etc are seen as far worse than european foreigners. Though I have experienced alot of discrimination here purely due to the fact that (at the time) I couldnt speak spanish. Now that I can, everyone is very accepting of me and more than friendly. So where I live, it seems they are much more concerned about people not bothering to speak the language and integrate, rather than how much money they have. And all of my spanish friends will agree!
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Old May 12th 2012, 10:29 am
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by JLFS
Of course it is nice to show respect for the country you have chosen, but to be blunt, the Spanish population prefer to see the colour of the incomers money than their ability to "roll their RRs",

Quite frankly most Spanish never come into contact with British expats and dont give them a second thought, but if you asked them their opinion of pensioners living in Spain most would think that they are at worst a lesser evil than say, Romanians, South Americans and other nationalities who usually dont come with independant means or pensions, and are in direct competition for jobs.

The population of any country is not so bothered about the language skills of the "incomers" they are more interested in the money they bring into the country so that they will not be a drain, even more so in times of cutbacks and hardship.

Same in the UK, I am sure the rich arabs buying the multi million pound pads in Mayfair are thought of differenly than econimic migrants taking low paid jobs and top up benefits.

Same here in Spain, given the choice I would rather have a large number of financially independant Brit expats who dont speak a word of Spanish, and have their health care paid for by their own country, than have a large group of fully fluent EEs who arrive without a bean, and are competing with the locals and in most cases undercutting them for jobs.

Some posters on here will not agree, but that is basically the opinion of most Spanish, and if most British people are honest, they would like a scheme like Austrailia whereby only "incomers" with financial clout are allowed into the country and not the "benefit seeking" masses, that are attracted to the UK for that reason.

Running a country is like having a hotel, why would anyone prefer or want to have guests who cannot pay for their bed, board and living expenses?

Financial suicide for a hotel and for a country.
Exactly,
Money certainly buys quite a lot of respect.
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Old May 12th 2012, 12:05 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by JLFS
Of course it is nice to show respect for the country you have chosen, but to be blunt, the Spanish population prefer to see the colour of the incomers money than their ability to "roll their RRs",

Quite frankly most Spanish never come into contact with British expats and dont give them a second thought, but if you asked them their opinion of pensioners living in Spain most would think that they are at worst a lesser evil than say, Romanians, South Americans and other nationalities who usually dont come with independant means or pensions, and are in direct competition for jobs.

The population of any country is not so bothered about the language skills of the "incomers" they are more interested in the money they bring into the country so that they will not be a drain, even more so in times of cutbacks and hardship.

Same in the UK, I am sure the rich arabs buying the multi million pound pads in Mayfair are thought of differenly than econimic migrants taking low paid jobs and top up benefits.

Same here in Spain, given the choice I would rather have a large number of financially independant Brit expats who dont speak a word of Spanish, and have their health care paid for by their own country, than have a large group of fully fluent EEs who arrive without a bean, and are competing with the locals and in most cases undercutting them for jobs.

Some posters on here will not agree, but that is basically the opinion of most Spanish, and if most British people are honest, they would like a scheme like Austrailia whereby only "incomers" with financial clout are allowed into the country and not the "benefit seeking" masses, that are attracted to the UK for that reason.

Running a country is like having a hotel, why would anyone prefer or want to have guests who cannot pay for their bed, board and living expenses?

Financial suicide for a hotel and for a country.
A very good post JL.
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Old May 12th 2012, 12:22 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by pixieve
Yes it does seem that the columbians etc are seen as far worse than european foreigners. Though I have experienced alot of discrimination here purely due to the fact that (at the time) I couldnt speak spanish. Now that I can, everyone is very accepting of me and more than friendly. So where I live, it seems they are much more concerned about people not bothering to speak the language and integrate, rather than how much money they have. And all of my spanish friends will agree!
Well why would the Columbians be seen as worse than European foreigners, if speaking the language was more important than the money they bring, because they arrived in Spain already being able to speak Spanish?

But they usually come with very little money.....
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Old May 12th 2012, 12:32 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by agoreira
Indeed interesting, especially considering under Franco ....
this is only what I have been told not my personal opinion I would not know much about the franco times

Last edited by DENISE WALTERS; May 12th 2012 at 12:38 pm. Reason: sp again
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Old May 12th 2012, 12:34 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by megmet
A very good post JL.
yes good point
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Old May 12th 2012, 12:38 pm
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Default Re: Is Spain really as bad as they say

Originally Posted by DENISE WALTERS
this is only what I have been told not my personal opion I would not know much about the franco times
I can assure you that most do not recall the General Francos times as happy ones, the people in his home town do not have a good word to say about him, only some who are shocked to see some topless bathing on the local beach.
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