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Spain: Paradise lost

Spain: Paradise lost

Old Dec 1st 2009, 1:07 am
  #121  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by cricketman
Fair enough, though dont take what El Mundo say seriously

It would be like paying attention to the Daily Mail
I`ll bare that in mind.
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 2:51 am
  #122  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by jojojojojojojojojojojojo
I dont think its anything to do with the nationality of the immigrants in the UK. The general opinion in the UK is more to do with immigrants being allowed to go to the UK and claim benefits and free health cover, when the same isnt allowed vice versa!


As for the polish, I think they're great! They work their butts off. Nearly every carpark in the UK now has a cheap, but excellent car cleaning service manned generally by polish chaps who work all winds and weathers for very little! I often wonder why the unemployed in the UK didnt think up that one??!

Jo xxx
What? seriously or are you joking?
Here's a senario for you (yes I'm at it agin): You work in a factory with many others, you work hard every day, every week and have been there for a long time. Now some Polish (insert uneeded immegrant) decide to work there for less money because this is still more then they got back home. They also say they are happy to work bank holidays for no extra money. They also say they are happy with minimum holidays per year and want no extra bonuses, etc. because they all live in the same house.
Six months later everyones contract is up for renewal (including yours) and the boss decides he wants all the Polish back but not yourself or your partner or brother or mother for example.
Now you are out of work along with your friends and family.
Now you try and sell your house because you can't pay the mortgage because you can't get a job because all the jobs are given to the unwated (by many and in the not too distant future many, many more) immegrants.
Nobody wants your house because there are so many people out of work. You can't pay your mortgage because you don't have a job so the bank takes your house that you only had 10 years left to pay and you cannot get another mortgage again or any other credit for years.
You then find yourself sharing a house with others because you're all in the same boat.
Because all the once well paid jobs are now going to the immegrants (yup, the low paid ones) you have no choice but to take an absolutely sh** job that nobody wants, your brother who also used to work with you can't get a job becaues the bar down the road wants "dolly birds" behind the bar so he gets desperate and starts stealing (or some other illegal avtivity) to help put food on the table.
To cut a long story short (yeah I know, I could have done that after the first sentence) you now have another Poland (or other poorer country) with lots of jobless people turning to crime to try and survive. You start blaming all the immegrants (possibly right, possibly wrong) which in turn turns to hate and we then have a racial hatred problem.
We are left with the once poorer people now doing better than us or we're all in the same boat living in large groups where each of us earns very little money and the once Great Britain is now a sinking island with lower standards than it used to have with all the people in work paying lots of tax to cover the health and benefits of those who don't earn a great deal of money.
But don't worry about that, you could always start a car wash!
Some things are better left they way they were IMO.
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:11 am
  #123  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by Madridboy
We are left with the once poorer people now doing better than us or we're all in the same boat living in large groups where each of us earns very little money and the once Great Britain is now a sinking island with lower standards than it used to have with all the people in work paying lots of tax to cover the health and benefits of those who don't earn a great deal of money.
But don't worry about that, you could always start a car wash!
Some things are better left they way they were IMO.
Erm, Madridboy, arent you a Brtish immigrant working in Spain taking a Spanish persons job??

It's a little ironic

Imagine you are a young Spanish person from a remote village, you worked hard all your life to become the first of your family to go to university. You graduate top of the year and venture to Madrid on your own to get enough money to rent a small flat and maybe send a bit of money back to your grandparents...

You go to the job interview and are confident as you have a degree in English and the job spec wants a fluent English speaker... but hold on, there is a British person there who speaks English fluently. The company give the job to him and you have to resort to begging in Plaza del sol...

Cmon, be serious
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:23 am
  #124  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by cricketman
Erm, Madridboy, arent you a Brtish immigrant working in Spain taking a Spanish persons job??

It's a little ironic

Imagine you are a young Spanish person from a remote village, you worked hard all your life to become the first of your family to go to university. You graduate top of the year and venture to Madrid on your own to get enough money to rent a small flat and maybe send a bit of money back to your grandparents...

You go to the job interview and are confident as you have a degree in English and the job spec wants a fluent English speaker... but hold on, there is a British person there who speaks English fluently. The company give the job to him and you have to resort to begging in Plaza del sol...

Cmon, be serious
I'm afraid I tend more towards Madridboy on this one. Generally a Spanish firm will only employ a Brit because it'll make that firm more effiicient and so help the others (Spanish) working for that company. Or maybe there are special skills the Brit (or German etc) may possess. The Brit will not be hired on the basis that he's cheaper than a Spaniard with the same skills (quite often it's the reverse), and there will never be any preaching "We only employ Brits to do the jobs the local people don't want to do". It benefits all parties.
In the case of British outfits employing accession European labour it's totally different - they're hired because they can undercut the local workforce. It's true that many of them will be better qualified and a different attitude, but is that really necessary for shop workers or cleaners. So you end up with entire estates of working people (black, white, Asian) in the UK on the dole, but worse told it's their fault.
When you see adverts like this (on an Oxford job site posted today), can you really blame the British (ex)-worker for getting disillusioned? I can't read Polish, but I assume it's for someone to work at the Tesco site in Didcot.
Tue 1st Dec, 12:51 KIEROWCY CE DO TESCO DIDCOT - OSTATNIE MIEJSCA Email Me
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:24 am
  #125  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by Madridboy
What? seriously or are you joking?
Here's a senario for you (yes I'm at it agin): You work in a factory with many others, you work hard every day, every week and have been there for a long time. Now some Polish (insert uneeded immegrant) decide to work there for less money because this is still more then they got back home. They also say they are happy to work bank holidays for no extra money. They also say they are happy with minimum holidays per year and want no extra bonuses, etc. because they all live in the same house.
Six months later everyones contract is up for renewal (including yours) and the boss decides he wants all the Polish back but not yourself or your partner or brother or mother for example.
Now you are out of work along with your friends and family.
Now you try and sell your house because you can't pay the mortgage because you can't get a job because all the jobs are given to the unwated (by many and in the not too distant future many, many more) immegrants.
Nobody wants your house because there are so many people out of work. You can't pay your mortgage because you don't have a job so the bank takes your house that you only had 10 years left to pay and you cannot get another mortgage again or any other credit for years.
You then find yourself sharing a house with others because you're all in the same boat.
Because all the once well paid jobs are now going to the immegrants (yup, the low paid ones) you have no choice but to take an absolutely sh** job that nobody wants, your brother who also used to work with you can't get a job becaues the bar down the road wants "dolly birds" behind the bar so he gets desperate and starts stealing (or some other illegal avtivity) to help put food on the table.
To cut a long story short (yeah I know, I could have done that after the first sentence) you now have another Poland (or other poorer country) with lots of jobless people turning to crime to try and survive. You start blaming all the immegrants (possibly right, possibly wrong) which in turn turns to hate and we then have a racial hatred problem.
We are left with the once poorer people now doing better than us or we're all in the same boat living in large groups where each of us earns very little money and the once Great Britain is now a sinking island with lower standards than it used to have with all the people in work paying lots of tax to cover the health and benefits of those who don't earn a great deal of money.
But don't worry about that, you could always start a car wash!
Some things are better left they way they were IMO.
So the arrogant British worker who's had the unions bartering for more money and less working hours, better conditions and holding their companies to ransome for all these years so that British goods and services have not only priced themselves out of the world market, but are renowned the world over for their unreliability are now being undercut and taken from the inside!!! Serves em right!

.... and I dont want to start a car wash BTW, too dusty, wet, cold and I dont need the money luckily for me

Jo xxx
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:25 am
  #126  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by cricketman
Erm, Madridboy, arent you a Brtish immigrant working in Spain taking a Spanish persons job??
No, they couldn't find a Spanish person in the direct area that had my skills, qualifications or experiance!
Originally Posted by cricketman
It's a little ironic
No, how do you come to that theory?

Originally Posted by cricketman
Imagine you are a young Spanish person from a remote village, you worked hard all your life to become the first of your family to go to university. You graduate top of the year and venture to Madrid on your own to get enough money to rent a small flat and maybe send a bit of money back to your grandparents...

You go to the job interview and are confident as you have a degree in English and the job spec wants a fluent English speaker... but hold on, there is a British person there who speaks English fluently. The company give the job to him and you have to resort to begging in Plaza del sol...

Cmon, be serious
My job doesn't require me to speak any language, come to think of it I don't need to speak at all!
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:30 am
  #127  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by jojojojojojojojojojojojo
So the arrogant British worker who's had the unions bartering for more money and less working hours, better conditions and holding their companies to ransome for all these years so that British goods and services have not only priced themselves out of the world market, but are renowned the world over for their unreliability are now being undercut and taken from the inside!!! Serves em right!

Jo xxx
JoJoJo = Most workers have never been on strike in their life. By your argument then we should boycott Polish workers because that Lech Walesa chap called a lot of strikes, and they never made any decent cars!
As it happens I've nothing against the Polish individuals concerned. In their place I'd welcome a chance to work abroad, learn a language etc. However the casualisation of labour in the UK, the globalisation and outsourcing and all the different management attacks on the workforce, have all eaten away at working people's chances and prospects. They're the real victims in all this.
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:31 am
  #128  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by jojojojojojojojojojojojo
So the arrogant British worker
Don't place all British workers as arrogant!
Originally Posted by jojojojojojojojojojojojo
who's had the unions bartering for more money and less working hours, better conditions
Who doesn't want good conditions? It's about quality of life or would you rather live in Poland, Pakistan, India, etc.
Originally Posted by jojojojojojojojojojojojo
and holding their companies to ransome for all these years so that British goods and services have not only priced themselves out of the world market, but are renowned the world over for their unreliability are now being undercut and taken from the inside!!! Serves em right!
I'm not a union type person for exactly the same reasons but isn't there a point to having them don't you think? It's sometimes the employer that holds the employees to ransome as well!

Originally Posted by jojojojojojojojojojojojo
.... and I dont want to start a car wash BTW, too dusty, wet, cold and I dont need the money luckily for me

Jo xxx
And aren't you just the lucky one eh? Maybe one day you or your family will need money then you can look back at your post and remember how you mocked those that don't have any.
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:34 am
  #129  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
JoJoJo = Most workers have never been on strike in their life. By your argument then we should boycott Polish workers because that Lech Walesa chap called a lot of strikes, and they never made any decent cars!
As it happens I've nothing against the Polish individuals concerned. In their place I'd welcome a chance to work abroad, learn a language etc. However the casualisation of labour in the UK, the globalisation and outsourcing and all the different management attacks on the workforce, have all eaten away at working people's chances and prospects. They're the real victims in all this.
I'm dippin out of this! I have very strong views on this one - but I will just say a very good friend of mine is being forced to go on strike cos their union leader has convinced the employers that the must - why??? Because the company wont pay them time and ahalf to work on christmas monday! In fact I know sooooo many people who've been on strike - 2 of them have since been made redundant because their companies have gone bust! Over the years the British workforce has destroyed itself and is now complaining cos their are people to replace them who "will" work for the good of the company and country, even if it isnt theirs

Jo xxxx

Last edited by jojojojojojojojojojojojo; Dec 1st 2009 at 3:37 am.
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:38 am
  #130  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

I just think its a little rich that while you are British workers benefiting from living and working in Spain, you want to deny that right to Polish workers in Britain

Whether you are employed because you are cheaper or work harder or have better skills makes no difference, you're still taking someones job.

You cant have it both ways
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:43 am
  #131  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

This is way off topic and the poster has been frightened off.

Original post and question.
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:43 am
  #132  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by cricketman
I just think its a little rich that while you are British workers benefiting from living and working in Spain, you want to deny that right to Polish workers in Britain

Whether you are employed because you are cheaper or work harder or have better skills makes no difference, you're still taking someones job.

You cant have it both ways
There's always one isn't there?

I didn't take anyones job as there wasn't anyone else that could fullfil that job that lived in the area.
You're completely missing the economical point in all of this.

Sorry to OP, I'll leave it at that.
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 3:47 am
  #133  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by cricketman
I just think its a little rich that while you are British workers benefiting from living and working in Spain, you want to deny that right to Polish workers in Britain

Whether you are employed because you are cheaper or work harder or have better skills makes no difference, you're still taking someones job.

You cant have it both ways
No-one's having both ways (apart from those who import workers to undercut on price and then complain the locals are workshy)

Another job posting (from the same job site):
Spanish native speaker required for freelance language school web development project. Candidate will have an analytical mind, excellent Spanish language writing skills and be very web savvy. Email Me

No-one's complaining about this; well I assume Madridboy isn't either. The utilisation of of each others' skills and expertise can help us all to progress and benefit. Replacing all the local low-skilled labour with cheaper imported labour, leads (from what I can see) to resentment, higher crime, low expectations etc amongst the resident population. Plus the social security bill rockets, and eventually the government goes bust.
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 4:01 am
  #134  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by Madridboy
There's always one isn't there?

I didn't take anyones job as there wasn't anyone else that could fullfil that job that lived in the area.
You're completely missing the economical point in all of this.

Sorry to OP, I'll leave it at that.
I'm not missing the point at all...

We live in a free European market. British people are free to go and live and work in Spain and Poland - and they are free to work in Britian

Leave them too it

Of course Poles may be able to work for cheaper, but it benefits the British economy, it means people get better work for a lower price - and makes British companies more competitive as they'll need to buk up their ideas

Many British people complain because they are either underskilled or lazy. You can still get a job picking crops in Britian for a good hour wage - as you can in Spain, but the local people refuse to do it.

Do let foreigners come and do it, it benefits everyone
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Old Dec 1st 2009, 4:08 am
  #135  
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Default Re: Spain: Paradise lost

Originally Posted by Madridboy

My job doesn't require me to speak any language, come to think of it I don't need to speak at all!
Or write hopefully, with your spelling!
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