Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Spain
Reload this Page >

Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Old Apr 15th 2013, 6:57 pm
  #1  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 174
Loco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond reputeLoco Pedro has a reputation beyond repute
Default Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Here's yet another draconian measure to screw cash out of the mainly non-voting foreigners who have property here and rent it out to help pay the overheads.
"Short-term renting to tourists, whether for the summer period or on a day-by-day basis, has up to now been a civil right enshrined in Spain’s Urban Rental law (LAU)."
This is about to change.
This will put lots of people out of work and be yet another blow to tourism in Spain.
The hoteliers look like the only possible winners here.
Once again, Spain's business brain seems to have blown a fuse !

http://www.thelocal.es/page/view/sho...l#.UWz0fFRBvMo
Loco Pedro is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2013, 7:43 pm
  #2  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 49
funinthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud offuninthesun has much to be proud of
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Probably aimed at those home homes who do not declare the income and use property maintenance people who do not declare their earnings either. I can see how the hotel owners would feel when they are paying taxes, employing staff etc. etc.
funinthesun is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2013, 7:57 pm
  #3  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 40
OrlandoSeaHorse is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

But then they can't collect non residents imputed income tax - the one that is based on the theoretical income from letting. Or can they because it's Spain?
OrlandoSeaHorse is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2013, 8:09 pm
  #4  
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Blunt instruments intended to solve one small issue, but unwittingly create 10 other problems and end up putting more money in the hands of those who least need it are no strangers to Spanish legislators, which explains a lot about why Spain is such a difficult place to make any money - unless you have millions to start with.
amideislas is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2013, 8:15 pm
  #5  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
agoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond reputeagoreira has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Originally Posted by Loco Pedro
Here's yet another draconian measure to screw cash out of the mainly non-voting foreigners who have property here and rent it out to help pay the overheads.
"Short-term renting to tourists, whether for the summer period or on a day-by-day basis, has up to now been a civil right enshrined in Spain’s Urban Rental law (LAU)."
This is about to change.
Good, bring it on. However, I've always said Spain is brilliant at making laws, but simply useless at enforcing them. So they might fine a token few, but I'd guess the majority will carry on as before. None of these illegal rentals will have been checked out by the authorities, so little things like fire escapes, extinguishers, food hygiene if it's a B&B type place, insurance etc probably won't be in place.
Newly released figures estimate that, of the 65,000 holiday homes rented every year in the Málaga province alone, 75% are not declared, meaning a total loss to the taxman of a breathtaking €104.8 million.
This was from last year, same promise to crack down, and as the article says, it won't have home owners shaking in their shoes. I hope they do enforce it, they certainly could do with the money.
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/expat/anna...risk-in-spain/
agoreira is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2013, 8:27 pm
  #6  
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Domino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond reputeDomino has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Originally Posted by agoreira
Good, bring it on. However, I've always said Spain is brilliant at making laws, but simply useless at enforcing them. So they might fine a token few, but I'd guess the majority will carry on as before. None of these illegal rentals will have been checked out by the authorities, so little things like fire escapes, extinguishers, food hygiene if it's a B&B type place, insurance etc probably won't be in place.

This was from last year, same promise to crack down, and as the article says, it won't have home owners shaking in their shoes. I hope they do enforce it, they certainly could do with the money.
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/expat/anna...risk-in-spain/
when viewing a house that was a rental with a view to buy to live in I noticed it had emergency light on the doors and landing and the agent said that Yes, all rentals have to have emergency lighting fitted.!!

Happens I brought a dozen out from the UK with me as with the power cuts we get they seemed to be a sensible item to fit to a house. Just no running man signs though.

`
Domino is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2013, 10:45 pm
  #7  
BE Forum Addict
 
Pocaloca's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,041
Pocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond reputePocaloca has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

I think the aim is to bring these "pirate" lets under the local legislation (which varies according to which region you are in). Any expat property owner following the local regulations shouldn't have anything to worry about. But it does mean that regions which currently don't have any regulations will have to introduce them.

At the moment you have people in cities letting out their flats to tourists in August while they go off to their summer houses. There are no safety checks on things like gas fittings, often no public liability insurance, and the noise can be a problem for the neighbours especially if it's in a residential block.

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/1784...sticos/pirata/
Pocaloca is offline  
Old Apr 15th 2013, 11:56 pm
  #8  
On the road again.
 
Dick Dasterdly's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Dick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Basically it doesn't look much different to the law they promised to enforce about 18 yrs ago if I rightly recall.

Don't know if it still applies, but the main operative words were "friends and family" to whom the regulations did not apply.

Now how on earth were the authorities expected to discover or prove precisely who were friends and family, especially if all the business was conducted back in the UK ?
Dick Dasterdly is offline  
Old Apr 16th 2013, 12:39 am
  #9  
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Basically it doesn't look much different to the law they promised to enforce about 18 yrs ago if I rightly recall.

Don't know if it still applies, but the main operative words were "friends and family" to whom the regulations did not apply.

Now how on earth were the authorities expected to discover or prove precisely who were friends and family, especially if all the business was conducted back in the UK ?
There are lots of very popular holiday lettings websites - most of the Spanish lettings get their bookings through those websites. If you look at a lot of them, the money they are getting certainly isn't making them rich. I'd guess some people are dependent on it to make ends meet. But they do provide a pretty good value for the money, which is what the hotels are likely adverse to.

Once this law comes into force, all the government has to do is look at the holiday lettings websites, and start picking them off one after another. Like shootin' fish in a barrel!

Good money in it, though. I read they can fine owners of holiday lettings up to €30K - at least as it stands now - if they aren't "licenced", and here in Mallorca, "licenced" holiday lettings are subject to taxes of up to 40% of the earnings anyway. So, lots of motivation to avoid "licencing".

And before you say anything about safety, the licencing inspectors don't do anything resembling inspection (we did it a long time ago, but then decided against it because the tax is too high). They show up with a form, check off whatever they see (or not) and leave. It's up to the tourist board to grant a licence or not. In Mallorca, it's almost impossible to get a licence anymore anyway, (unless you are extremely generous to certain individuals, of course).

So, I reckon that rather than make an honest effort to ensure that holiday lettings meet certain standards, it's just easier to make them illegal. At least that would get the hotels off their back, and as a bonus, make it really easy to impose huge fines.

EDIT: I'd have to believe the holiday lettings sites would be lobbying to protect their income from Spanish lettings, too. I reckon they make a pretty good bob from it. IIRC, they get about 15%!

Last edited by amideislas; Apr 16th 2013 at 2:28 am.
amideislas is offline  
Old Apr 16th 2013, 8:45 am
  #10  
On the road again.
 
Dick Dasterdly's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Dick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond reputeDick Dasterdly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Originally Posted by amideislas
There are lots of very popular holiday lettings websites - most of the Spanish lettings get their bookings through those websites. If you look at a lot of them, the money they are getting certainly isn't making them rich. I'd guess some people are dependent on it to make ends meet. But they do provide a pretty good value for the money, which is what the hotels are likely adverse to.

Once this law comes into force, all the government has to do is look at the holiday lettings websites, and start picking them off one after another. Like shootin' fish in a barrel!

Good money in it, though. I read they can fine owners of holiday lettings up to €30K - at least as it stands now - if they aren't "licenced", and here in Mallorca, "licenced" holiday lettings are subject to taxes of up to 40% of the earnings anyway. So, lots of motivation to avoid "licencing".

And before you say anything about safety, the licencing inspectors don't do anything resembling inspection (we did it a long time ago, but then decided against it because the tax is too high). They show up with a form, check off whatever they see (or not) and leave. It's up to the tourist board to grant a licence or not. In Mallorca, it's almost impossible to get a licence anymore anyway, (unless you are extremely generous to certain individuals, of course).

So, I reckon that rather than make an honest effort to ensure that holiday lettings meet certain standards, it's just easier to make them illegal. At least that would get the hotels off their back, and as a bonus, make it really easy to impose huge fines.

EDIT: I'd have to believe the holiday lettings sites would be lobbying to protect their income from Spanish lettings, too. I reckon they make a pretty good bob from it. IIRC, they get about 15%!
Not necessarily, there are already lots of smaller concerns and owners working happily undercover with no more than a mobile number and a list of contacts they have already made.

It will simply drive a lot of business and income underground and further increase the black market effect.

No way can they properly checkout all the small time operators in the UK or prove what are and what are not bone fide guests.

They've already pushed a huge variety of small Spanish businesses underground and onto the black, which are now still merrily working away with the use of their own or someone else's mobile number.
Dick Dasterdly is offline  
Old Apr 16th 2013, 8:06 pm
  #11  
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spain cracks down on home rentals to tourists

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Not necessarily, there are already lots of smaller concerns and owners working happily undercover with no more than a mobile number and a list of contacts they have already made.

It will simply drive a lot of business and income underground and further increase the black market effect.

No way can they properly checkout all the small time operators in the UK or prove what are and what are not bone fide guests.

They've already pushed a huge variety of small Spanish businesses underground and onto the black, which are now still merrily working away with the use of their own or someone else's mobile number.
I agree - like most other short-sighted ideas the Spanish govt. likes to impose, it will only push those holiday lettings even farther into the black economy.

We have friends who have a holiday let, and they tell us that they host very few Brits - who seem to prefer crowded all-in resorts, but many continental Europeans (Germans, Dutch, French, Scandinavians, etc) seem to prefer establishing a "home way from home", and will book the same place every year, and that seems reasonable - an apartment or villa can be a much more relaxing way to spend your holiday, and often much less expensive than a hotel.

Still, the holiday lettings websites have a lot of traffic and generate a LOT of bookings. I'd reckon it could become quite difficult to fill an entire season if you have no internet presence and only word of mouth and a mobile phone, unless you already have a set of guests that return every year. Otherwise, few would know you exist or how to contact you.

I would've thought that at a time when people need it most, they'd just make it easier and less expensive to licence a holiday let. But instead, it looks like the hotel chains may get their way, and gain another fraction of a percent more bookings from it, at the expense of the public.

...and by the way, don't think for a minute that all the money going to the hotel chains stays in Spain - that would be silly, wouldn't it?
amideislas is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.