Spain 36 years ago.
#2
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Re: Spain 36 years ago.
I think if you did not live through this, or your family did, then it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to understand.
But a few years ago it was publicised that the UK government is planning a state funeral for Margaret Thatcher. Many a Guardian reader was disappointed when they saw the headline "State Funeral for Thatcher" that it was only at the planning stage!
But a few years ago it was publicised that the UK government is planning a state funeral for Margaret Thatcher. Many a Guardian reader was disappointed when they saw the headline "State Funeral for Thatcher" that it was only at the planning stage!
#3
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Posts: 25
Re: Spain 36 years ago.
I think if you did not live through this, or your family did, then it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to understand.
But a few years ago it was publicised that the UK government is planning a state funeral for Margaret Thatcher. Many a Guardian reader was disappointed when they saw the headline "State Funeral for Thatcher" that it was only at the planning stage!
But a few years ago it was publicised that the UK government is planning a state funeral for Margaret Thatcher. Many a Guardian reader was disappointed when they saw the headline "State Funeral for Thatcher" that it was only at the planning stage!
#4
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Re: Spain 36 years ago.
Well I come from a very conservative anti-communist right-wing family so I doubt Franco would have bothered us. However I have close relatives that lived through the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) and those were bad times....
#7
Re: Spain 36 years ago.
i taught english in madrid in the sixties when the man himself was still alive. one thing for sure was that it was a much safer place than it is today. i really enjoyed the two years i spent there. no such thing as tefal....if you could speak it you could teach it. and the money was good....when spain was a very cheap place to live.
I like you found Spain very safe in those days, even as a teenager I loved the freedom and feeling of being safe here... cheap, many people wouldn't believe how cheap it was!
Over the years I have heard many comments from the Spanish about Franco, many disliked him and said they and their families lived in fear of him and the Guardia while others described life here under Franco as totally different than that, just as we have mentioned they also described it as safe and free. Funny enough many comments I have heard against Franco actually came or come from people who where not actually old enough to remember much about Spain under Franco, some where not even born but seem to have a dislike for him! my memories of my days as a holiday maker when he was alive and for the several years after he died where fantastic, it wasn't long after this that I came here to live (1981). Sadly for me Spain has changed a lot from those days, for many they will of course like the changes but for me I will always remember my early years in Spain with fondness and sadness as I think Spain doesn't actually know what it has lost in it's desire and exhilaration for getting away from a dictatorship (They just haven't realised they got out of one only to eventually get into another ).
Last edited by Econ; Nov 30th 2009 at 8:40 pm.
#8
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Re: Spain 36 years ago.
I was on holiday then as a 18 year old teenager in Fuengirola, I went out for a few beers with some friends that night and the duke box was unplugged (a lot of bars had duke boxes in Fuengirola then) and when I asked why I was told 'in a very low voice' that Franco had died and that music was banned... I remember being very disappointed, not that Franco had died but that we couldn't listen to any music.
I like you found Spain very safe in those days, even as a teenager I loved the freedom and feeling of being safe here... cheap, many people wouldn't believe how cheap it was!
Over the years I have heard many comments from the Spanish about Franco, many disliked him and said they and their families lived in fear of him and the Guardia while others described life here under Franco as totally different than that, just as we have mentioned they also described it as safe and free. Funny enough many comments I have heard against Franco actually came or come from people who where not actually old enough to remember much about Spain under Franco, some where not even born but seem to have a dislike for him! my memories of my days as a holiday maker when he was alive and for the several years after he died where fantastic, it wasn't long after this that I came here to live (1981). Sadly for me Spain has changed a lot from those days, for many they will of course like the changes but for me I will always remember my early years in Spain with fondness and sadness as I think Spain doesn't actually know what it has lost in it's desire for wanting to be free.
I like you found Spain very safe in those days, even as a teenager I loved the freedom and feeling of being safe here... cheap, many people wouldn't believe how cheap it was!
Over the years I have heard many comments from the Spanish about Franco, many disliked him and said they and their families lived in fear of him and the Guardia while others described life here under Franco as totally different than that, just as we have mentioned they also described it as safe and free. Funny enough many comments I have heard against Franco actually came or come from people who where not actually old enough to remember much about Spain under Franco, some where not even born but seem to have a dislike for him! my memories of my days as a holiday maker when he was alive and for the several years after he died where fantastic, it wasn't long after this that I came here to live (1981). Sadly for me Spain has changed a lot from those days, for many they will of course like the changes but for me I will always remember my early years in Spain with fondness and sadness as I think Spain doesn't actually know what it has lost in it's desire for wanting to be free.
#9
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Re: Spain 36 years ago.
I'm friends with Catholics in Spain and many of them want La Falange to take back power. A lot of the people that tell you that they lived in fear of Franco are also people that were communists, socialists, liberals in general. If you were a Christian and ethnic Spanish the police would leave you alone. That's why I say, the government was nice to mine
#11
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Re: Spain 36 years ago.
Got that right haha joking. The only bad thing I was told about Franco was that he liked killing left-wing leaning people. I don't think that's right, but I think Spain should be a more conservative place, like it was before but not a be-conservative-or-die kinda place. I'd rather live in Saudi Arabia if I wanted that
#14
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Re: Spain 36 years ago.
Anyone help me with a definition here please? I'm a middle of the road guy, and despise moves to the left or the right, since both those roads lead eventually to totalitaran states.
I hear a lot about the evils of socialism. So, what exactly is socialism? Bearing in mind of course that Hitler was a National Socialist, and Stalin an International Socialist.
I don't like the idea of the religious in control either as that's just Theofacism.
To remain on topic, looking back at Spain then, there were certain aspects that were charming, but would you really want to return to that perceived golden age where the price was such rigorous control of individuals, and the mass graves? Remember Franco and the church went hand in hand, and to enjoy free speech of any kind save in adulation of state and church would probably earn you a place in the nearest mass grave.
I hear a lot about the evils of socialism. So, what exactly is socialism? Bearing in mind of course that Hitler was a National Socialist, and Stalin an International Socialist.
I don't like the idea of the religious in control either as that's just Theofacism.
To remain on topic, looking back at Spain then, there were certain aspects that were charming, but would you really want to return to that perceived golden age where the price was such rigorous control of individuals, and the mass graves? Remember Franco and the church went hand in hand, and to enjoy free speech of any kind save in adulation of state and church would probably earn you a place in the nearest mass grave.
#15
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Re: Spain 36 years ago.
Anyone help me with a definition here please? I'm a middle of the road guy, and despise moves to the left or the right, since both those roads lead eventually to totalitaran states.
I hear a lot about the evils of socialism. So, what exactly is socialism? Bearing in mind of course that Hitler was a National Socialist, and Stalin an International Socialist.
I don't like the idea of the religious in control either as that's just Theofacism.
To remain on topic, looking back at Spain then, there were certain aspects that were charming, but would you really want to return to that perceived golden age where the price was such rigorous control of individuals, and the mass graves? Remember Franco and the church went hand in hand, and to enjoy free speech of any kind save in adulation of state and church would probably earn you a place in the nearest mass grave.
I hear a lot about the evils of socialism. So, what exactly is socialism? Bearing in mind of course that Hitler was a National Socialist, and Stalin an International Socialist.
I don't like the idea of the religious in control either as that's just Theofacism.
To remain on topic, looking back at Spain then, there were certain aspects that were charming, but would you really want to return to that perceived golden age where the price was such rigorous control of individuals, and the mass graves? Remember Franco and the church went hand in hand, and to enjoy free speech of any kind save in adulation of state and church would probably earn you a place in the nearest mass grave.
Its well known that the "left" and "right" are different end points of a circle than actually meet up at a totalitarian point.
At the right you have the fascists - Hitler, Mussolini and Franco. They basically believe that their country is great and only proud nationalists should be allowed. The Nazis expelled and killed all minorities, disabled and anyone not belonging to the "Aryan race". Franco killed anyone who didnt believe in "Mother Spain" and "Spanish Catholic values" including republicans, anarchists and communists (and had permission from the Pope to do so).
Socialists believe everyone is equal and should be treated equally never mind what they are born into or what skills or talents they have. At its most extreme this includes sharing resources equally and is called communism.
The Russian communist party was basically fascist too, as there was no freedom of speech tolerated. That was their take on communism. They believed in the "state" above all but had poor value for individual lives and rights.
Fascists (or conservatives at the mild end) believe people should believe in the country and "belong" and "commit" to whatever the leader has decided those values are. If you dont belong then find yourselves a new country or die. Those that belong have the freedom to get rich how they desire or to form chronie networks that get rich together.
I prefer the old-fashioned Spanish anarchist values, where people have the right to make decisions for themselves and not to be dictated to from the state. However, this has to rely on the better side of human nature and leads to the corruption we see in a lot of Spanish ayuntamientos