Solar water heaters
#1
Family man
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Playa Flamenca, Orihuela Costa
Posts: 542
Solar water heaters
Anyone have them? I am going to an expo tomorrow but would love anyones opinion on them and how well thay function in winter. I realise that they work from U.V. rays and not just direct sunlight but of course it is no good having boiling hot water in summer and tepid in winter. Lol.
#2
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: conil de la frontera
Posts: 363
Re: Solar water heaters
Anyone have them? I am going to an expo tomorrow but would love anyones opinion on them and how well thay function in winter. I realise that they work from U.V. rays and not just direct sunlight but of course it is no good having boiling hot water in summer and tepid in winter. Lol.
#3
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,980
Re: Solar water heaters
Yep, 3 panels on the roof + a 1000 liter tank, hot water in summer and winter and central heating (backed up by gas).
#4
Re: Solar water heaters
I'm pretty sure someone's mentioned there being an earlier thread about this, but since this is now, I've got to ask. Approximate installation cost (if you did it yourself, well done but an idea would be good! Temperature of the water 365? quantity? Size of panels? btw this isn't cynical or snide, it's cos it's something we always talk about and never get around to
#5
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2009
Location: Shetland/Granada Province and orginally the right side of the border.
Posts: 235
Re: Solar water heaters
I'm pretty sure someone's mentioned there being an earlier thread about this, but since this is now, I've got to ask. Approximate installation cost (if you did it yourself, well done but an idea would be good! Temperature of the water 365? quantity? Size of panels? btw this isn't cynical or snide, it's cos it's something we always talk about and never get around to
#6
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,980
Re: Solar water heaters
I can´t give an exact pricing on our system, I´m also not sure if it´s any use to anyone here as most parts (Panels, 10 radiators, tank ) came from Germany and we´ve installed/built it ourselves. The panels we got fairly cheap as they´ve been used for a showroom. The solar panels are about 2.20 by 1.20 meters and produce enough energy to have hot water all year round. But in the winter we go through about 1 1/2 - 2 gasbottles a week to keep the house warm...... and we´ve got a woodburner as well. So it´s still costing us about 100 - 120 € a month in heating costs. (but our electricity bill stays the same)
The system roughly has cost us about 14.000 € but I don´t think it´s relevant, there surely are other options.
The system roughly has cost us about 14.000 € but I don´t think it´s relevant, there surely are other options.
#7
Re: Solar water heaters
I can´t give an exact pricing on our system, I´m also not sure if it´s any use to anyone here as most parts (Panels, 10 radiators, tank ) came from Germany and we´ve installed/built it ourselves. The panels we got fairly cheap as they´ve been used for a showroom. The solar panels are about 2.20 by 1.20 meters and produce enough energy to have hot water all year round. But in the winter we go through about 1 1/2 - 2 gasbottles a week to keep the house warm...... and we´ve got a woodburner as well. So it´s still costing us about 100 - 120 € a month in heating costs. (but our electricity bill stays the same)
The system roughly has cost us about 14.000 € but I don´t think it´s relevant, there surely are other options.
The system roughly has cost us about 14.000 € but I don´t think it´s relevant, there surely are other options.
I reckon any/all info on this will be useful for someone who's planning a system.
#8
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Solar water heaters
14,000 euros? Wow, that is one heck of a budget. I have been looking at a lot of alternatives, to be honest, most of which involve me doing it myself. There is no way that I could afford anything quite like that, plus the payback time would be quite impressive. Even at a grand a year saved, that's 15 years before you turn a profit, more if you had to borrow to achieve it.
A couple of hot water tanks on the roof, and some copper pipe should do the biz quite nicely, bearing in mind that you would need to learn a little about parabolic troughs, and how to make them. Clue, - look at catenary curves, which are easier to construct and can focus heat very well.
You could make a catenary trough quite easily if you can do a bit of glass fibre work. I'm thinking of making mine using a stiff cement mix, very dry, and compacting it, then using a cutout plywood curve to create an inverted mould. (like a length of gutter upside down.) It would have ridges either side to provide a seating groove for glass strips, and so on.
The only skills you need would be soldering and glass fibring, both of which are no-brainers and easily learnt on the job.
The MASSIVE advantage of this system is that it is completely modular. You need to make a certain level of purchase to begin with, ie a tank, the basic pipework, a pressure relief valve and enough fibreglass and pipe to make one catenary trough (remember the pipe in the trough needs to be in one piece, with no solder joints where the sun is focussed.). I doubt that that would exceed 500 euros by much. You fit the catenaries so that there is an easy connect stub of pipe at top and bottom, and when you want to add more, drain the system, cut the soldered caps off the stubs and solder on a couple more. As many tanks as you like can be connected to boost storage, and the system can be adapted to have catenaries to collect sunlight in the am and the pm.
Do a bit of research and understand how the collectors need to be below the storage tanks, insulate the tanks well, and I reckon that you could create a brilliant system for a comparatively small investment.
If each catenary is 1/3 metre wide and three long, then you are picking up a sq metre's worth of power which can be up to a kilowatt, if the figures are right, less obviously in real life, especially in winter. Still, all each catenary would cost you is a sq metre of glass, a sq metre of fibreglass, and a three metre length of 22 mm pipe. Even in winter, because the sunlight is focussed, it gets pretty hot in those tubes.
Anyway, that's just a couple of thoughts on the subject.
A couple of hot water tanks on the roof, and some copper pipe should do the biz quite nicely, bearing in mind that you would need to learn a little about parabolic troughs, and how to make them. Clue, - look at catenary curves, which are easier to construct and can focus heat very well.
You could make a catenary trough quite easily if you can do a bit of glass fibre work. I'm thinking of making mine using a stiff cement mix, very dry, and compacting it, then using a cutout plywood curve to create an inverted mould. (like a length of gutter upside down.) It would have ridges either side to provide a seating groove for glass strips, and so on.
The only skills you need would be soldering and glass fibring, both of which are no-brainers and easily learnt on the job.
The MASSIVE advantage of this system is that it is completely modular. You need to make a certain level of purchase to begin with, ie a tank, the basic pipework, a pressure relief valve and enough fibreglass and pipe to make one catenary trough (remember the pipe in the trough needs to be in one piece, with no solder joints where the sun is focussed.). I doubt that that would exceed 500 euros by much. You fit the catenaries so that there is an easy connect stub of pipe at top and bottom, and when you want to add more, drain the system, cut the soldered caps off the stubs and solder on a couple more. As many tanks as you like can be connected to boost storage, and the system can be adapted to have catenaries to collect sunlight in the am and the pm.
Do a bit of research and understand how the collectors need to be below the storage tanks, insulate the tanks well, and I reckon that you could create a brilliant system for a comparatively small investment.
If each catenary is 1/3 metre wide and three long, then you are picking up a sq metre's worth of power which can be up to a kilowatt, if the figures are right, less obviously in real life, especially in winter. Still, all each catenary would cost you is a sq metre of glass, a sq metre of fibreglass, and a three metre length of 22 mm pipe. Even in winter, because the sunlight is focussed, it gets pretty hot in those tubes.
Anyway, that's just a couple of thoughts on the subject.
#9
Re: Solar water heaters
14,000 euros? Wow, that is one heck of a budget. I have been looking at a lot of alternatives, to be honest, most of which involve me doing it myself. There is no way that I could afford anything quite like that, plus the payback time would be quite impressive. Even at a grand a year saved, that's 15 years before you turn a profit, more if you had to borrow to achieve it.
A couple of hot water tanks on the roof, and some copper pipe should do the biz quite nicely, bearing in mind that you would need to learn a little about parabolic troughs, and how to make them. Clue, - look at catenary curves, which are easier to construct and can focus heat very well.
You could make a catenary trough quite easily if you can do a bit of glass fibre work. I'm thinking of making mine using a stiff cement mix, very dry, and compacting it, then using a cutout plywood curve to create an inverted mould. (like a length of gutter upside down.) It would have ridges either side to provide a seating groove for glass strips, and so on.
The only skills you need would be soldering and glass fibring, both of which are no-brainers and easily learnt on the job.
The MASSIVE advantage of this system is that it is completely modular. You need to make a certain level of purchase to begin with, ie a tank, the basic pipework, a pressure relief valve and enough fibreglass and pipe to make one catenary trough (remember the pipe in the trough needs to be in one piece, with no solder joints where the sun is focussed.). I doubt that that would exceed 500 euros by much. You fit the catenaries so that there is an easy connect stub of pipe at top and bottom, and when you want to add more, drain the system, cut the soldered caps off the stubs and solder on a couple more. As many tanks as you like can be connected to boost storage, and the system can be adapted to have catenaries to collect sunlight in the am and the pm.
Do a bit of research and understand how the collectors need to be below the storage tanks, insulate the tanks well, and I reckon that you could create a brilliant system for a comparatively small investment.
If each catenary is 1/3 metre wide and three long, then you are picking up a sq metre's worth of power which can be up to a kilowatt, if the figures are right, less obviously in real life, especially in winter. Still, all each catenary would cost you is a sq metre of glass, a sq metre of fibreglass, and a three metre length of 22 mm pipe. Even in winter, because the sunlight is focussed, it gets pretty hot in those tubes.
Anyway, that's just a couple of thoughts on the subject.
A couple of hot water tanks on the roof, and some copper pipe should do the biz quite nicely, bearing in mind that you would need to learn a little about parabolic troughs, and how to make them. Clue, - look at catenary curves, which are easier to construct and can focus heat very well.
You could make a catenary trough quite easily if you can do a bit of glass fibre work. I'm thinking of making mine using a stiff cement mix, very dry, and compacting it, then using a cutout plywood curve to create an inverted mould. (like a length of gutter upside down.) It would have ridges either side to provide a seating groove for glass strips, and so on.
The only skills you need would be soldering and glass fibring, both of which are no-brainers and easily learnt on the job.
The MASSIVE advantage of this system is that it is completely modular. You need to make a certain level of purchase to begin with, ie a tank, the basic pipework, a pressure relief valve and enough fibreglass and pipe to make one catenary trough (remember the pipe in the trough needs to be in one piece, with no solder joints where the sun is focussed.). I doubt that that would exceed 500 euros by much. You fit the catenaries so that there is an easy connect stub of pipe at top and bottom, and when you want to add more, drain the system, cut the soldered caps off the stubs and solder on a couple more. As many tanks as you like can be connected to boost storage, and the system can be adapted to have catenaries to collect sunlight in the am and the pm.
Do a bit of research and understand how the collectors need to be below the storage tanks, insulate the tanks well, and I reckon that you could create a brilliant system for a comparatively small investment.
If each catenary is 1/3 metre wide and three long, then you are picking up a sq metre's worth of power which can be up to a kilowatt, if the figures are right, less obviously in real life, especially in winter. Still, all each catenary would cost you is a sq metre of glass, a sq metre of fibreglass, and a three metre length of 22 mm pipe. Even in winter, because the sunlight is focussed, it gets pretty hot in those tubes.
Anyway, that's just a couple of thoughts on the subject.
btw, a friend who's into doing his own thing if and when possible, reckons that black garden hose or water pipe or whatever, coiled or S-snaked around either a S-facing bank or within a barrel, or whatever, if placed below the pool, and utilising gravity & hot water rising, might be a mega cheapo way of topping up the heat in the pool water. Any thoughts?
#10
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Solar water heaters
That will pick up some heat, but it will be limited to the same rules. If the hose is 25cm diameter, then to get 1 sq metre, you will need 40 metres of hose and so on.
#11
Re: Solar water heaters
The BBC has reported that new research says Solar Panels can last up to 30 years and to be a worthwhile investment for most - and that prices have come down a lot with the recession and higher demand / production.
BBC Article Here
I wish they were more affordable though. It seems crazy in country like Spain that they are literally not installed on every house !
The thing is
a) I don't plan staying 30 years and
b) Will I recoup the cost if I sell the house in a few years
c) It'd have to be done by experts as my DIY skills are crap!
BBC Article Here
I wish they were more affordable though. It seems crazy in country like Spain that they are literally not installed on every house !
The thing is
a) I don't plan staying 30 years and
b) Will I recoup the cost if I sell the house in a few years
c) It'd have to be done by experts as my DIY skills are crap!
#12
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 368
Re: Solar water heaters
The BBC has reported that new research says Solar Panels can last up to 30 years and to be a worthwhile investment for most - and that prices have come down a lot with the recession and higher demand / production.
BBC Article Here
I wish they were more affordable though. It seems crazy in country like Spain that they are literally not installed on every house !
BBC Article Here
I wish they were more affordable though. It seems crazy in country like Spain that they are literally not installed on every house !
#13
Re: Solar water heaters
Not sure !! I think the " mandatory " came in only last year on new-build only... and as not many builders are in business right now - seems solar heating for the masses is a long way off !!
#14
Re: Solar water heaters
A lot of the plans were submitted long before the new rules came into force too.
#15
Re: Solar water heaters
Friend of mine has a solar system which provides water and electricity. It cost him €20,000. Note, he is in the sticks and can't get mains electricity.