Solar panels
 

Does anyone have solar panels? Are they mainly used for heating pools or does anyone use them for providing electricity?

Judging by the previous posts about electricity companies and price hikes think I could be tempted to fit them when we buy a place!

Re: Solar panels
 

Well if you buy a new place then its law now that it has to be solar panel ready here. We got a quote for panels to "heat" our pool and it was about €2500 and we were told it would only raise the pool temp a couple of degrees, which frankly wasnt worth it.

If I had the choice I would probably have solar fitted for water heating, as I find the water heater can be quite a drain on the bill

Re: Solar panels
 

Hi

If a solar panel installation costs 25,000 and you take an interest rate of 5% then the interest alone is 1,250. If most people pay around 150 euros every two months, that is 900 a year. Then remember that you will need to change the batteries evry 10 years.

Do correct me if my figures don't calculate

Davexf

Re: Solar panels
 

25000!!! Is that what a full system costs :confused::eek:

Re: Solar panels
 

Hi Mitzy,

That's what I am left to believe for a full system powering electricity for a "normal" three bedroomed house with automatic backup generator.

At least - that's what the last pamphlet I threw away said !!!

Davexf

Re: Solar panels
 

I (seriously) looked into it. The basic installation was about 20k euros to produce 3.5Kw. Given that we would need to be connected to Ibedrola, for various reasons, this would have taken about 20 - 25 years to pay back and that's before you start to make a saving!!

Simply not worth it until the basic cost comes down or there is an incentive to do it (other than a moral one).

I can understand that if the property is to be passed on within the family, then you can accept a pay back in this kind of timescale, but I'm not sure that I can guarantee that.

Mmmmmmm.... nice to be green but ...

Re: Solar panels
 

There's an american publication I sometimes see called Home Power. One issue priced up a complete "off grid" solution as:

PV system, 720 W $12,000 (edit: this is for a 5kW/Hr capacity - very low, UK average is about 11)
4 wood heaters 10,000
PV water pumping system, 320 W 6,200
Cistern, 1,250 gal. 2,500
Rainwater catchment system 1,500
Greywater system 500
Propane-fired tank water heater 200
Total, Energy/House Systems $32,900

This guy spent about $36k getting his system (though being an american his energy consumption was, frankly, profligate) but he seems to have gone all-electric, rather than the more sensible approach of using a separate solar hot water system - or even just buying a couple of pullovers.

Re: Solar panels
 

Can you get grants still?

Re: Solar panels
 

I had a quote in for both water heating and photovoltaic (electricity generating) systems, and by gum it's a bit complicated.

From what I am led to believe the water heating panels, if you have enough, can be used for domestic hot water, underfloor heating or pool heating, but not all at once. For summer you'd just use it for hot water, which I reckon would be pretty hot too, spring and autumn you'd get a bit more life out of the pool and winter for underfloor heating. I think the cost for this system was about €15K, and considering my electric bills for Dec/Jan were €850 I am getting sorely tempted.

The photovoltaic system generates as much electricity as you have panels, and there are grants available retrospectively for particular systems, up to 30% I believe. The crafty bit is that you don't use it for yourself. You have a box next to your meter that measures how much you send back to Iberdrola and, wait for it, they pay you 4 times the going rate for the electricity.

Get your head around that one!

Ste.

Re: Solar panels
 

We have solar heating for our pool. The system is pretty simple and is basically a set of black pipes layed out on a shelf in full sunlight through which the pool water is pumped. It has minimal intelligence with a thermal switch that turns the pump on when the pipe temp is a certain number of degrees above the pool temp. Works very well in extending the useable pool period. Normally have to turn it off in the height of summer so as not to turn the pool into a bath.

it was already fitted when we bought our home but given it's simplicity I can't imagine that it is very expensive

Re: Solar panels
 

hi there are house runs on solar panels and wind generater plus batteries .we brought every thing from america 4 panels wind generater batteries power inverters all for 2000 pounds we installed them our selves there are several companys in spain i can email you with details its so easy every thing is run off these for are property. helen

Re: Solar panels
 

Well, I tend to think that photovoltaics aren't worth it, because of the high costs of batteries. Ditto wind power.

However, hot water is a no brainer. You can even, if a big water tank is a no-no on the roof, set up a big tank on the ground that can act as a trap for the hot water, (or set up a heat exchange coil) but that does need a water pump to circle the water round so it can get caught in the trap.

A wind generator can also generate heat, dumping the power into a hot water heater, so that is good for the winter, and if you can store a couple of day's hot water in the trap, then a sunny winter's day gives dividends.

Such a solar water heating system can be easily built (the turbine is a bit more techie) and I am sure that it wouldn't cost too much if you can do a bit of welding and fibreglass work yourself. The solar panels can be made as catenaries, out of fibreglass, and the purchase of an arc welder and a bit of study is a very worthwhile skill to gain. Soldering pipework is simple, and the panels can sit on the tank supports and feed the tank thru a thermosiphon.

Pressure can be solved with a feeder tank and ball cock, and the tank can feed the house thru gravity. I have just fitted the pipe work for our second bathroom, and in each bathroom there is a spur off the hot water pipe with a stopcock on it. Basically, to switch from the electric heater to the solar, you just turn off the tap on the hot feed from the electric heater and open the stopcock to the solar.

Re: Solar panels
 

have you tried this ???????? solar panels and wind generator work really well .would be intrested to see if your idear works . helen

Re: Solar panels
 

General Info,
A 5KW Solar system will power a 3 bedroom house with auto generator minimum 5KVA providing power for Heavier loads, or to supplement high usage cost would be 15k€, with a good open frame diesel generator at about 3000€.
Should you wish to reduce further generator run time and cost ,buy more panels. (however beware of the paybacks)
The fitting of Solar electric is rarely cost effective vs a Grid supply due to extended paybacks as demonstrated above, however, a few points to note,
Permanent power cut free electricity, no unfair price hikes, no Oil relate penalty's. reduced carbon footprint, future price and energy increases will be irrelevant, battery life, is normally in excess of 15years, if managed properly and carefully, indeed one supplier offers a 10Year guarantee, with life expectancy in excess of 20 years.
Solar Panels (Thermal/Hotwater) are unlikely to provide hotwater all the year round, with perhaps only a slight rise in temp in the months of Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb. I would say that a saving of up to 70% of water heating costs could be made on an annualised basis.
Solar pool heating, is rarely effective in the cooler months and the most to expect from a well engineered system would be an extension of the swimming period for 8/10 weeks front back of season.
Using solar heating for central heating is just not an option, as when you need the heating is when there is least Solar heat, IE in Winter, at night and when its raining or snowing!!!
You cannot just plug your panels into the grid, and I understand it Spain (Uniquely) does not allow this, (reversing meters are used in France, Germany, Low countries and UK), but in Spain you would have to put in a seperate dedicated system, which is then formed as a Seperate company, with its own meter to sell back to the grid, not as complex as it sounds, and you could put in a small system for about 50k€, with a payback of about 12/14 years @ current sell back rate, it was a lot better,
The rate of sell back was 42C per KWH, until the change in the Royal decree last year when it was dropped to 26C per KWH, there are slight differnces with different suppliers and regions. hence the sudden spate of Solar parks that were suddenly constructred rather quickly last summer.
Wind generators, are not as effective as Solar panels in my view, given both their power curves vs windspeed, and more importantly, in Spain we get about 320 days of sun, whereas the wind is a much more indeterminate thing, although most people will say it is always windy here, test we have done doesnt always prove that.
Self build systems are sometimes effective, but invariable require a inordinate amount of time to develop and perfect, ideal for the retired engineer, but not advised if you intend to work, have a family and want a steady reliable source of power.

Re: Solar panels
 

Well, like so many I lack the money. I am part way thru the 2nd bathroom, but it's a case of being able to buy the stuff I need. The solar water heating is so simple, that I can put it together easily once I have the parts, all I need is to get enough steel for the supports, the rods for welding it, the paint, and then the glass fibre, the insulation and waterproofing, the pipework and enough ply and glass to make the solar housing.

None of those on its own is excessively expensive (tho the fibreglass will hurt a bit), but the sum is more than I hav at present.

The wind generator requires a decent workshop, and that is something that I need to save up for.