Social security cards
 

I, my wife and daughter have been living in Spain for nearly two years now, (Aug. 05). Our social security cover runs until Jan 2008. I was hoping to find work by now and pay into the system so that we would be automatically covered. We still have savings to last us a few years yet but are worried about not being in the system. On initial enquiry it appears that you can not pay in voluntary. I wondered if it was possible to pay back in the English system and they could authorize an extension on our cards.
I am sure there are other people in our situation and any help would be most grateful.

Thank you :unsure:

Re: Social security cards
 

I have no idea about the UK system, but two things occur to me:

1 Private medical cover is cheap here. We pay 60 euros a month (and that is in addition to having SS cover from Spain).
2 If you register as an autonomo and pay the cuota you would be covered. But this costs just over 200 euros a month though.


Now I have a question, probably for Fred James when he comes along....

.....what happens if you register as autonomo, get the SS card, and then as soon as you get the card de-register as autonomo. You would still have the card in your possession.....but would you remain covered by Spanish SS just because at some point in the past you have made a couple of cuota autonomo payments?

Re: Social security cards
 

I was told by DWP in the UK before I left that I could not pay into the UK system once I was a Spanish resident

As KW says, private health care is much cheaper here and you may find it more economically viable to pay that.

Dont forget once one of you reaches retirement age both of you are covered .... and if you live in Valencia region you may find you are covered anyway

Re: Social security cards
 

You can make voluntary contributions into the UK system but these only entitle you to a increased retirement pension.

They do not affect your eligibility for health care in the UK and they will not entitle you to any reciprocal benefits from the Spanish system.

If you do not have the full 44 year contribution record you will not receive a full UK pension. The cost of these voluntary contributions is only about £350 per year and each year you pay increases your pension by 2.5%. If you do the maths you will find that it is a very good investment.

There is an automatic free credit for the years between 60 and 65 but this does not apply if you are not UK resident.

Re: Social security cards
 

It sounds like a good plan!

I have no idea if it would work but I think the problem might be in the "de-registration" process. No doubt it is even more complicated that registering in the first place (how are you going to prove that, magically, you don't need to work any more).

Bearing in mind that the whole system is now fully computerised (and unlike the UK it seems to work) it would be very easy for them to deactivate your SIP card at the same time.

Maybe someone out there would like to give it a try!

But as you say, Keith, private medical insurance is quite cheap in Spain.

Re: Social security cards
 

Yes ... it was health they were asking about ....... as far as pension is concerned I was also told by DWP not to pay any extra contributions as the law is changing to make the contribution level 30 years and any money I paid would be wasted. So, depending on your age & when you retire, when the law comes in you will get a full pension on 30 years.

Re: Social security cards
 

The deregistering as autonomo is very easy (I have done it once before, but only so that I could immediately register myself again as another type of business). All that is required is to tick the BAJA box of the Modulo 036 instead of the ALTA box.

I suppose you would then register as unemployed at what used to be called INEM (I forget the new name).

As far as I know once you have got the SS card, they don´t ask for it back again, and if you are on the system as unemployed, wouldn´t they continue to give you SS cover?

Well, if this worked it would be a very cheap way for some pre-retirees to get free health cover, but I really don´t know if it would work.

By the way, what is a SIP card? or is that what I refer to as the SS card?

Re: Social security cards
 

Its the card that registers you for the health system .... whats an SS card :)

Re: Social security cards
 

Seguridad Social. So what does SIP stand for?????

Re: Social security cards
 

SIP card is used to keep track of medicines you acquire from pharmacies either in spain or within the EU.

Re: Social security cards
 

The correct term for a health card is Tarjeta Sanitaria.

In Valencia there is a scheme called "Sistema de Información Poblacional de la Conselleria de Sanidad" or SIP for short.

Ex-pats in that area tend to refer to the tarjeta as a SIP card and as Ex-pat forums are not always regional, the term is often used in other areas.

Re: Social security cards
 

I'm given to understand that if you reach retirement age after 2010, then you will need onyl 30 years contributions to get full pension.

Re: Social security cards
 

Okay, so my card is red on one side and says "seguridad social". If I flip it over it is green and says "Tarjeta sanitaria".

So if I am getting this correctly, my card is a Social Security card & health card, but not a SIP cos that is only for Valencia.

The more I think about it, if I registered as unemployed then I can´t think why they would take away my rights to free health cover. Not that I am thinking of doing this, but it could be a loop hole for people who come to Spain for early retirement and don´t qualify for free Spanish health cover after their 2 years' grace.

Re: Social security cards
 

Thats the way I see it. You use the number on the card for any health things like booking doctors appointments etc.

As for your ideas about becoming unemployed and keeping your rights that seems like a possibility but the only snag I can think of is if you are on the unemployed register do they insist on you attending etc and other restrictions like in the UK. If so this could be a complicated way of getting free health care.

Re: Social security cards
 

There was a lot of talk about this about 6 months ago and the Benefits Agency were telling people not to pay voluntary contributions as they may not be needed.

I applied for a new pension forecast shortly after and nothing was said about this. I think it was an idea that was floated by some government advisors but has not had much support from the treasury as it will cost too much and there are alarming repercussions for those people who have actually made the full contributions.

It seems to have gone very quiet on the subject to I guess it might have been scrapped. However I shall not pay any more contributions until they reach the deadline for payment.

Re: Social security cards
 

Hi Fred James,

I think this became law in April along with a raft of other pension changes and is phased in so that if you retire before 2010 you have to have a full contribution record but after that you need less.

There was something about it on the pensions website when I checked to see if it would mean my wife would get an upgraded full pension instead of a 68% pension for not enough years. As usual it is not retrospective they only do that when they take such as IHT changes.

Regards,

John.

Re: Social security cards
 

Hi John.

Thanks for that info.

I had a look for details on the DWP site and found a link to a summary of the relevant Pensions Bill. Its here http://tinyurl.com/3chbvw

It does include the 30 year provision but it is still only a proposal.

As you say it will not be retrospective but it does seem to say that it will not be phased in - if you retire before 2010 you are on the old system and if you retire after 2010 you are on the new system.

Still, I think it may have a way to go yet before it becomes law. It doesnt affect me as I am 65 next year and I still have 7 years contributions to make - the penalty for early retirement!

Re: Social security cards
 

Hi Fred James,

I think it was included in the bill but to become Law it will require a Statutory Instrument to lie on the floor of the house for 90 days and they will not do this until they are sure that it will go ahead as proposed in the Bill

Regards,

John.

Re: Social security cards
 

I have a question on this one.

If the wife is older than the husband and so will reach retirement age well before him, then

• Is it better for the wife to register as the autonomo or whatever and pay the SS contribs, thereby leaving a relatively short time to contribute before officially receiving pension and benefits?
• Is it better to register the business in the wifes name or in the husbands name?
• Any other advice on this subject will be appreciated, thanks.

Re: Social security cards
 

You retire the same time as me Fred, surely if you paid up to 60, then you will have 45 years of stamps needed anyway, so why pay extra ?

Re: Social security cards
 

Hi jdr and Fred,

I went early at 56 and expected to have to pay all the way to 65 but I found out one or two things by diligent research and accident.

One that if you started work at 18 and have a complete record you will have 42 years in by 60 and you do not have to pay anymore after 60 the last 5 yrs are free (but only if you are resident in UK).

Two that since I had worked all my holidays from being 15 and paid stamp and had a job at college and such I only needed to buy one year to get the 44 years in if you counted the 5 free years from 60.

Three not to trust anybody since I checked my pension forecast online two weeks ago and found that at 63 I now have a complete 100% 44yr contribution record and do not need the last two years free contributions. I don't expect they will give me a refund of my £360 nor can you go beyond the 44 yrs with the free contributions.

So the conclusion is you have to be very sharp to get all these calculations spot on and you never seem to be on the right side of DWP.

Regards, :curse:

John.

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Re: Social security cards
 

Hi John, where do you check you pension forecast online ?

Re: Social security cards
 

Hi jdr,

At the Pensions website but it aint easy you have to get various keys and passwords first to enter the secure section of the .gov system. When you have done that it seems that you can get all sorts of personal info but I have only done the pension forecast so far. It is supposed to operate for local government as well but the only LA on there in the past 2 years has been Kesteven district council so not all that much use.

Regards,

John.

Re: Social security cards
 

Maybe I will give it a miss then, that site is a big mystery at the best of times :rofl:

Re: Social security cards
 

Jusr for everyone's information; the new law is going to be this: (It's not law yet AFAIK):

If your State Retirement date is BEFORE 6/4/10 you will still be on the old 39/44 years system. and have to pay/be credited with that many years of NIC Contributions to get full State Pension.

If it is AFTER this date you will only have to pay/be credited for 30 years to get the Full State Pension.

MY State Retirement date is January 2010:eek: I have one more year to pay.

But it will worke out well for my husband who reaches his date in 2014 and already has 38 years in.:)

As regards the Online Pension Forecasts, if you find it's too much hassle, we just filled them in online and then printed the forms out and posted them. Or you can just write.

Re: Social security cards
 

Could you give me the website anyway? I´d like to give it a go to see if I´ll be entitled to anything.....I´ve only accumulated 7 working years in the Uk though!

Re: Social security cards
 

Here's the link....


http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_4017970

...but I have a feeling you have to have paid in at least ten years to be entitled to anything.

Re: Social security cards
 

Thanks, and Godammit!

Re: Social security cards
 

On further investigation it is only for people who are going to retire within the next 30 days so no good to me anyway.

I guess the contributions that I made in the Uk don´t count for anything now. Would I get a teeny tiny state pension when I retire or is it just money lost?

Re: Social security cards
 

I retired at 50 so that means I was only credited with 34 years. I have paid 3 more so far and have another 7 to pay which I will do soon.

If I was resident in the UK it would be 5 years less as John said.

Re: Social security cards
 

Unless I've given you the wrong link, you can get a Forecast any time up until a month before retirement. (It says MORE than 30 days away from retirement!:rofl:).

I think you have to have paid in for ten years to get anything, sorry. But have a look at this link, you may be ablre to claim off your spouse's (if you have one) contributions:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...nt/DG_10021384

Re: Social security cards
 

Thank you for the info. If I was to register as autonomo, what is the easiest non-existent business to say we are running and what costs are involved? Also, can you give me the private medical insurance name that you are using?
Thank you

Re: Social security cards
 

Different private medical companies are stronger in some geographical areas than others. Where I am the two with most influence are Asisa and Adeslas, but that doesn´t necessarily mean that they are the best where you are.

If you set up as autonomo the only cost would be your cuota autonoma - just over 200 euros a month which pays for your Seguridad Social.