Pulaski

But that's how it works, rightly or wrongly. ...... And is why I currently expect to retire with a "full" UK state pension and "full" (not reduced by "WEP", as many mid-career immigrants to the US experience) US Social Security because I will have made enough years of contributions into US Social Security years before I retire.

On the flip side, the cost of voluntary NICs is so low that I see them more as an insurance policy - if they make the pension means-tested and I retire poor I'll be glad I have the state pension, and if I retire wealthy then I won't care much if they don't pay me a UK state pension.

bobd22

If someone is retired even if not state pension age then unless they work they do not pay NI, to pay NI you must be working (other than voluntary contributions to say make up a shortfall). So whether one retired abroad or uk they do not pay NI. I retired aged 58 am uk resident splitting my time legally between uk and Spain. I have not paid NI since retiring I get full NHS care and have over 40 years NI contributions so sufficient to entitle me to state pension when I get to required age, so difference had I become an expat on retiring? Contrbutions for pension are NI related not tax related.

Hornets_Nest

You miss the point by a country mile - state pensions in the UK are based on the years NI that you have paid in. So for instance if you paid into the fund for 10Yrs you will get 10/30ths or under the NSP 10/35ths of a state pension. If however you stayed in the UK and paid in for 30 or 35 years you would get a full state pension - less contracted out % if applicable.

Is that clear enough for you?

bobd22

Maybe because most of those that have retired to say Spain have paid full NI and income tax etc for a working life while in the uk? I

johnnyone

You only get the full NSP if you were never contracted out.

christmasoompa

No need to be rude about it, I thought this was supposed to be an 'interesting debate'? You can debate without getting aggressive surely? I understand fully thank you, I just have a different point of view to you, and that's not a bad thing.

A full state pension can also have been obtained by expats paying Class 2 contributions, which is a tiny amount compared to that paid by most of those working and living in the U.K.

And what about those that left the UK aged 20, and haven't lived there for decades and only paid Class 2? Spain is probably a slightly different argument as most that move there would be retired, but that's not the case for a lot of other countries.

As above, this is JMO! Perhaps it should be done based on how many years expats have actually paid full NI in the UK, and pro-rated accordingly.

bobd22

So what about the people in uk that could have worked but never did and had their contributions paid by the state they have not actually contributed a jot of their income have they? But they get full pension care etc. We could all come up with circumstances where someone gets what some consider favourable treatment . At the end of the day if someone has paid full NI contributions etc why should they not get what they paid for irrespective of where they live?

Hornets_Nest

Couldn't agree more.

That was me being polite

KieronF

The SNP has always been very generous with other people's money.

formula

And then some

10 billion financial black hole in 2014.
Independence Day: Scotland would have faced ‘£10bn black hole’ - The Scotsman


and getting worse.

24 August 2016
Scotland’s public spending deficit has reached almost £15 billion, making it proportionately more than twice the size of the UK figure.

Official data released on Wednesday shows that Scotland is in the red to the tune of 9.5 per cent of its GDP, compared to four per cent for the UK as a whole. The figure is understood to be the highest in the EU, after Greece at 7.2 per cent of GDP and Spain at 5.1 per cent.
Scotland's huge deficit 'blows £15bn hole in case for independence'

mikelincs

Particularly as they will never be in a position to apply it throughout the UK.

bobd22

No doubt when the wheel comes off it will be no doubt somenow down to England's fault for letting them do as they please and Westminster will sort it out for them at the cost of English tax payer.

Pulaski

And they think they can leave the UK and join the EU as an independence Scotland! Like the EU needs another basket case!

Jon-Bxl

Nicola Sturgeon feels the brexit vote & Scotlands desire to remain are 'material circumstances' to call a second referendum.

I recall before the first Scottish referendum, Scotland knew that there was likely to be a UK Brexit referendum. It was certainly 'on the cards'. Scottish independence was also tied to EU membership.One of the EU presidents, Barosso on the Andrew Marr show said it was highly unlikely that an independent Scotland would be accepted (needing a 100% support of all members).

So the Scots knew that voting pro UK would also mean a potential UK wide referendum that they would be a part of. So they knew that there was potentially a second, brexit, referendum coming. They had no assurances that EU membership was a done-deal.

I think we should therefore 'be in it together'

OK we are dealing with politicians here, passionate and capable, so a second Scottish referendum may happen.

I think its hypocritical to say one one hand, that Scotland wants to know our Brexit negotiations up front. So that they know what the plan is. On the other hand she can't go to a referendum, IMO, without a plan for the people to vote on.

I therefore feel she should call the referendum, based on the material change of the brexit vote, ONLY if she can come to the electorate with a written guarantee that the EU will accept them if they vote out.... And on what terms e.g taking the Euro and what the financial arrangements would be for them of membership.

Using remain as her trigger requires her to bring guarantees to her people of Scotland remain-ing in the EU.

With these debt figures, they could qualify as a net 'taker' of money. But would the members vote for that, unanimously, knowing there was a cost.... Especially when they know they will lose our (Uk) huge payment around 2019???

Jon

Pulaski

Spain would vote no to an independent Scotland under any and every circumstance because of their own Basque issue.