NKing

Good morning all,

I'm curious about shorter stays in Spain. Who monitors the length of your stay? Does it really matter if your stay is 182 continuous days or does it have to be split into two 3 month stays?

I have a friend who lives in Portugal and could potentially split my stay with her. But in all the years I've travelled to Spain, I've never once had my passport looked at, stamped or anything else.

If I'm not working in Spain, paying my taxes in the UK (for the remaining 6 months) - how does that work?

I've often wondered how it's possible to get off a plane in Alicante and not be checked in some way. I have an EU passport and not doing anything nefarious, but I currently live in Canada and you can't go out of this country without going through hoops...

I hope my question makes sense -- Friday morning and haven't had my caffeine fix yet.

I'd be grateful for some input.

Thanks,
N.

scrubbedexpat095

I guess it depends on whether you have any connection to Spanish officialdom of any sort. I once asked a similar question and was told you needed to keep receipts, plan tickets etc to to prove you were not here for more than 183days,
but as I said I think it depends on having some sort of contact with Officialdom of any sort because as you say there is absolutely no control or stamps in Passports etc.

I'm sure that someone will be along any minute now to clarify matters

NKing

Thanks for the swift response.. I don't have any connections with or had any dealings with Spanish authorities. I have an apartment there, have my NIE, pay my taxes and generally have my duckies in a row. But I would like to split my time between the UK and Spain..

I'd gladly visit my friend in Lisbon and that would split up my stay - I assume - but at this point have no intention of working in Spain, buying a car or registering on the padron. Perhaps when I retire, I'll do that. I'm not trying to break any laws, but as I said, I've always wondered if Spanish customs ever check your inbound trip...

Oh well, I'll wait to see if there's any other input.

Thanks again.

N.

mikelincs

Basically the onus will be on you to prove that you haven't been there for the 183 days in a year, and no, it doesn't have to be consecutive, it's a total of 183 days in any year. There is really only one way to prove you haven't been there the full length of time, and that is by having ferry or plane ticket stubs or something, one of the downsides of living in the EU where passports aren't stamped.

scrubbedexpat095

Well you certainly do have contact with Spanish officialdom via your Nie and the owning of an apartment and I guess from filling in a non resident tax declaration (if you do that) i.e They know about you already and as they are really tightening up on tax issues one day you might find you get a letter from them asking how long do you spend here and as Mike say it will be up to you to prove that you have not been here for more than 183 days

NKing

thanks for the response... yes, I do realise that I have legal ties to Spain and I'm quite proud of that fact!! But I misunderstood the previous responder. As I've said, I have no intentions of disobeying any laws and will gladly keep tickets. I just wondered how it was monitored...idle curiosity, given the overwhelming security in Toronto.
'
Cheers,
N.

Fred James

The short answer is that it is not monitored. However, as has been pointed out, when, for some reason you do interest the authorities, it is up to you to prove that you were not in Spain.

The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" often works the other way round!

NKing

Thank you all for the input: just fyi, the situation that prompted this question was that I have 3 friends who are meeting me in Gatwick in October. We're all flying to Alicante on the same flight. I have two passports (EU and Canadian). One of my friends is Canadian and has only a Canadian passport. The next is from the UK with an EU passport and the third is from the US. They were wondering how we'd get through customs.... the two from the US and Canada were somewhat perplexed at the fact I was able to get off the plane, collect my luggage and not see any official in the process. I haven't flown with these individuals before in a group, so I've not had to pay any attention to which entry/puerta non EU travellers have to use. We'll find out.. And the concept above is most certainly apparent when entering Canada (citizen or not!) As they say in Glasgow, "it's easier getting an audience with the Pope."

Jon-Bxl

Hi Because of Shengen, travel between these countries is passport free (though you need it for ID if ever stopped by eg Police).. meaning you can walk straight out. We live in Belgium, I travel on a UK pport and no issues, and no controls coming to any Shengen country eg Portugal, Spain, France etc.

However if your flight originates in say the UK.... you will have to go through passport control, where there will be a line for EU passport holders. So you and your friends will have to go through pport control, taking the appropriate line...

Jon

bobd22

I don't see how having an NIE in anyway becomes a problem re how many days one is there as I have had mine as non resident for 7 years and only ever used when buying the house etc. Although not condoning exceeding 182 days if someone does I can,t see anyone knocking on your door. Unless of course someone who is non resident has wrongly signed on the padron, they don't pay non resident tax if property owner, they work or they get themselves in trouble with the police. Probably if one thing likely to bring a non resident to notice is being on the padron as basicly you are saying you are resident!

Jon-Bxl

I agree that it is really difficult for anyone to know how many days you have been in a country, and frankly, I'm sure there are people who bet on that. And are evading taxes.

However the point is that its the law and if ever called up, for whatever reason - its up to you to prove innocence.

I know of someone who hit the 'radar' as the police saw he was still driving around on UK plates.

Frankly those that do it deliberately are evading tax = illegal, vs avoiding tax = legal. I suspect that there is a lot of evasion in Spain, not just from the expats either. The govt has every right to go after suspected cases of evasion - as its wrong and in this crisis, they need the money!

Jon

bobd22

Yes Jon I agree with your comments. The person you mention fitted what I said would draw attention illegaly using UK registered car bringing them to the attention of police. My comment was not to condone clearly breaking the law as some do living permanent in Spain not even paying non resident tax, more for a non resident who slips over the time limit by a few days or weeks,

HBG

All of us ultra honest taxpayers who can't afford to use the many tax havens pay our taxes somewhere, for most of us that's the UK. We are are not cheating anyone, taxes are at similar levels throughout Europe.

The trouble with Spain is that it is such an incredibly corrupt country, corrupt from top to bottom, with more than half the people working black, i.e. defrauding the country.

When you join such a system as a foreigner, you are joining a corrupt system and will be treated accordingly. There is absolutely no point in applying any sense of British honesty to your position as a guiri, it will not work, and you will be cheated by the authorities at every opportunity.

The most obvious way to join in and sleep at night is to not join in and not sign anything official that alerts the authorities to your presence in Spain.

Perhaps the easier way is to follow exactly the example set by your Spanish neighbours and cheat your guest country along with the rest of them.

bobd22

I also believe that more people who have retained property or other assets including reasonable savings in ISA's will be drawn to HBG's way given the introduction of the 720. Possibly totally different if someone has left nothing in the UK. As I say I am truly non resident and probably will be for some time due to other half working on in order to ensure she gets a full state pension (commented on other thread) , however as my income is all from government pension then apart from having to pay someone to do a negative Spanish tax form, should i become resident Spain would gain nothing, in fact they get a bit more by me paying non resident tax. Of course I would have to declare my life's savings which are currently tax free in an ISA and house I retain for my daughter which is also a point of concern. So I have decided to wait and see the wood from the trees before making it full time.

Jon-Bxl

I realise this is off-topic, and not the easiest thing to do, but just for consideration, re maximising pension...

http://britishexpats.com/forum/spain.../#post11352679

Jon