Selling up
 

My wife and I being in our late seventies have decided after 6 happy years here in the CB we would like to return to UK. We have no idea how to go about selling our house and would appreciate any advice.

Do we use a Spanish or an English estate agent to get it valued. What sort of percentage charges do they make? Is it advisable to use a solicitor, again English or Spanish?

Have heard that Spanish buyers expect to pay a certain amount on so called ‘Black Money’. How should we react to that? When we bought the house new in 2004 no black money was paid and there is no outstanding mortgage.

How about taxes on profit, how does that work as we would not be buying again in Spain?

The reasoning behind this thinking is because our only living relations are on the other side of the world and we or in the eventuality, one of us, would feel more secure in the UK

Re: Selling up
 

Cannot help you with any of your questions but wanted to wish you all the best for the future and hope that it all goes smoothly for you now that you have made this difficult choice.

Rosemary

Re: Selling up
 

I’m extremely sorry to hear of your predicament and can only hope to answer some of your questions.

If you’re residents then there would be no capital gains tax and black money should no longer be paid.

Depending on your knowledge of Spanish, you might feel more comfortable with English agents and solicitors and there are several reliable ones in your area. Agents normally charge around five percent for their services.

Mitzy is local to you and should be able to provide more information.

Good luck!

Re: Selling up
 

Thank you both for your answers. Certainly pleased to hear that we will not be liable to Capital gains tax.

Obviously the house market is very depressed at the moment so we don't expect anything to happen in the near future but we have to start the ball rolling so to speak so thought our forum would be a good place to start.

Do estate agents come out and give a valuation same as in UK?

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Since when? I was told by an estate agent only the other day that its 18%:confused: Surley this is only if you roll all the money into another SPANISH property.

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Please don't take this as any sort of insult - it isn't. But I think you're expecting a house sale to work the same as it does in england. It doesn't.

First thing, agents in spain charge outrageous commissions, 6% - and VAT on top of that - is not unheard of. Second, so far as valuations go, they will either try to grossly undervalue your place to get a quick sale, or they will set an arbitrary value, or they will ask you how much you want for the house. Unless there have been other properties, similar to yours sold recently they will not have much of a clue what the going rate is. Also, unless you price your house at a very low value, it could well take years to sell - 2 or 3 years.

Second thing, get lots of agents involved. Most don't seem prepared to do much work, apart from merely placing your property on their website, and (in the rare eventuality) if anyone asks about it, showing them around. They don't seem to actively "market" properties, just wait for punters to show up, yet they somehow thing they're earning their fee - remarkable! A good way to find out which agents are worthwhile and which are time-wasters is to search the internet for other for-sale properties in your area. The agents that have some on offer are the only ones worth bothering with.

For some reason the spanish custom - copied by lots of expats too, seems to be to sell a house "warts and all". They don't go to much, if any, effort to present it for sale. So when you view, you trip over children's toys, notice the aroma of cat litter or dog pee, spot that the front needs a lick of paint or that the windows don't close properly. You may be able to set your place out in a class of its own by making sure it looks good for when/if buyers arrive. Though it can be tough keeping up that level of tidiness for some years.

I think the black money thing has largely died out now. There has been an overhaul of the spanish money laundering rules and standards and it is now much harder to just "disappear" 20 or 30 thousand euros. The tax officials will come investigating large, unexplained withdrawals. If anyone offers or insists, just say that the house is very competitively priced and you expect the sale to be made legally and above board. You can still sell the furniture for cash, as a separate transaction, but not for €100,000!

Going back to agents. Apart from smallish amounts for legal certificates (and I do mean small: €50) don't pay them anything up front. Don't take any notice of what they say "standard" commissions are, negotiate everything. Hard. You'll have to keep nagging them, too. Make sure they have all your details correct. Make sure the entry on their website is accurate and that the amount they have it advertised at is what you expect. If they aren't sending people round to view, get on the phone or go and ask why. Don't sign anything that gives them sole rights to sell the place - once the initial flurry of new interest dries up, they will do little or nothing to promote your place.

Phew!

Re: Selling up
 

I can help you if you wish and would have no problem coming to visit you at your home or meeting you somewhere if you would prefer. I have been able to help others on the forum (and I think they were pleased with me??):fingerscrossed:

P.S. I am not an estate agent LOL

Re: Selling up
 

In this market I wouldnt pay more than 3%-4% comission. Noone is going to refuse to take you on because of that. 3% is fairly normal in Spanish cities, the estate agents in the holiday/expat areas are the ones that charge a lot more.

My advice is to take on an estate agent who targets Brits and other foreigners. And another who targets Spaniards. As so many things here "never the twain do meet" :)

And make sure they get your details up on the online sites, idealista, fotocasa etc. It is free anyway but will need to be in Spanish. You can research these sites yourself to see how much you think the property should go up for. In this market most buyers will ask for a substantial discount so you need to price at an amount that isnt too high to put off potential buyers, but still have room for a discount, tricky :)

I agree, black money has died out and it may take a year or two to sell even at a good price, it will be quicker if your property is desirable and a good price, of course.

Best of luck!

Re: Selling up
 

What about if you haven´t got the first occupation licence?

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I put my house on the market just over a year ago. Being up the mountains(with the goats)I expected very little interest from the English and this is the case. I made a huge list of estate agents,mainly English,and e-mailed them to see if they would like to market the house. I also have my escuitura,nota simple,utility bills and numerous house photos on disc. And those agents who wanted to market the house got a copy.
Pricewise,,I told them what I wanted for the house,priced it to sell,and they put their commission on top. Some of it quite hefty too. Only a few of them came out to view the house,but I expected that. Agents here are notorious for lack of application,except when claiming their commission of course.
When I had put the house on numerous internet sites,I then put a plastic envelope outside the front door,with sheets inside,describing the house,with photographs,and with the price on. Also on the sheet was the two best sites to view the house on. So far I have had over 90 of these sheets go,I am lucky as visitors to my village have to pass my house to get to the castillo. The sheets are in spanish and english.
When I paused for breath,I then targetted all the local spanish agents,and got better service. Most of them came out,took photos(not needed but they still did it)and commented on how nice the house was presented...always clean,dining table laid with full service,windows spotless etc....they mentioned that a lot of the houses they market are not presented to their best(as stated in previous remarks).
I have not paid a cent to any of the agents,no sale no fee is the order of the day. If,and when, I get a viewing and an offer,I will expect E3000 as a deposit,non refundable,and then I will feel as if a sale is imminent. As for the black money,it is still about but not as much as in years gone by.
To sell up in spain nowadays is hard,but with proper planning and a realistic asking price,you will give yourself a fighting chance. good luck.....:fingerscrossed:

Re: Selling up
 

Agree, 18% unless roll-over is possible (dependent not only on purchasing another property but also on timing eg for how many years have the vendors submitted resident tax returns and the time limit for roll over relief being available). However, I think the law provides for rolling it over into another property in any part of Europe - although in practice I suspect this must be quite complicated and I don't know anyone who has done it.

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I think if over 65 and resident no tax is due.

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Have just re-read OP's post and seen their age. Yes, you're right.

Just stressing they need to be fiscally resident - I know some people who believed they were resident because they had resident cards but they had never submitted resident tax returns and so couldn't take advantage of tax concessions.

Re: Selling up
 

Firstly, good luck in trying to sell, there are far more sellers out there than buyers at the moment, and it will be very unlikely that you will get the price you paid for the house. I personally know of someone who bought a house, around the same time you did, for 160,000 Euros, she sold finally at the beginning of this year for 95,000, despite the place being valued at 180,000. If you do need legal advice, I would recommend getting in touch with SueG as the people she works with were extremely helpful when we needed legal advice, they are English but have an excellent Spanish lawyer working with them, and they do have Spanish speakers in the office. Pm her for help.
You should be able to negotiate the commission down as most English estate agents there are desperate for new business and have stopped adding the 20%+ commission which was common around 2004.

Re: Selling up
 

Well, I have always found this forum to be a great site for information on a whole host of subjects and have certainly not been disappointed in the responses and information that you have all so kindly contributed.

I have read every post with great interested and am now collating all the relevant facts that apply to our situation. All to be filed away and printed as not trusting too much to memory these days !!

Have found the information re Estate Agents and lawyers most helpful but am a little confused re ‘Resident Tax Returns’ – Our income is such that we do not pay any tax to the UK so would consider ourselves to be in the ‘Non Tax bracket’ as far as Spain is concerned.

Have read comments re – No tax on the sale as we are both over 65 and also a tax of 18% mentioned. We have been residents since 2004 with Padrons and NIE numbers etc.

As mentioned in my original post, this is an ongoing thing and we certainly don’t expect things to happen overnight with the housing market being as it is at the moment. Consequently we can take our time – up to a point – and really get things sorted, so with the help and information from you all we have at last a move in the right direction