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-   -   Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/santiago-abascal-steals-show-political-debate-929075/)

SpMo Nov 5th 2019 3:51 am
Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
All major newspapers confirming the obvious: according to El Mundo, El Pais, ABC, etc. surveys, Santiago Abascal of VOX was the most impressive of the 5 candidates. In April Sanchez managed to exclude VOX from the face-to-face debate with the major candidates. No more. And despite the socialists' monopoly on the media and leftist control of the universities, VOX is connecting with ordinary Spaniards. And here's the kicker for the socialists: Abascal is not their best orator. That would be the irrepressible Javier Ortega Smith.
Still early days for VOX, but the momentum is with them.

Retired in Euskadi Nov 5th 2019 6:08 am
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Originally Posted by SpMo (Post 12759047)
All major newspapers confirming the obvious: according to El Mundo, El Pais, ABC, etc. surveys, Santiago Abascal of VOX was the most impressive of the 5 candidates. In April Sanchez managed to exclude VOX from the face-to-face debate with the major candidates. No more. And despite the socialists' monopoly on the media and leftist control of the universities, VOX is connecting with ordinary Spaniards. And here's the kicker for the socialists: Abascal is not their best orator. That would be the irrepressible Javier Ortega Smith.
Still early days for VOX, but the momentum is with them.
What is difficult for "ordinary" Spaniards (assuming they exist) to understand is the depth of dread & fear that an ultra right party such as VOX instils in the minds of Catalans & Basques, who were forbidden to speak their own languages in the street under dictator Franco. They have different cultures & language enough for many of them to consider Spain another country. Vox would not tolerate any dissent & would wish to get rid of 'las autonomias' on a par with abolishing Wales, Scotland & N. Ireland so as to bring them into the "English" fold.
There has to be dialogue & more dialogue and for Madrid (Spain) to accept the rich diversity of its regions, not to 'dictate' to them what it thinks is best.

1sexsmith Nov 5th 2019 9:30 am
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Originally Posted by SpMo (Post 12759047)
All major newspapers confirming the obvious: according to El Mundo, El Pais, ABC, etc. surveys, Santiago Abascal of VOX was the most impressive of the 5 candidates. In April Sanchez managed to exclude VOX from the face-to-face debate with the major candidates. No more. And despite the socialists' monopoly on the media and leftist control of the universities, VOX is connecting with ordinary Spaniards. And here's the kicker for the socialists: Abascal is not their best orator. That would be the irrepressible Javier Ortega Smith.
Still early days for VOX, but the momentum is with themselves.
Have you actually read all these publications in Spanish? I have read El Pais today. It does not anywhere say that it VOX was the strongest. It has a panel of commentators the majority who claim Sanchez was the winner. One panelist argued for Abascal !!!!. So please stop spreading false information.

Retired in Euskadi Nov 5th 2019 11:03 am
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Quite agree.

Retired in Euskadi Nov 5th 2019 11:56 am
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Originally Posted by SpMo (Post 12759047)
All major newspapers confirming the obvious: according to El Mundo, El Pais, ABC, etc. surveys, Santiago Abascal of VOX was the most impressive of the 5 candidates. In April Sanchez managed to exclude VOX from the face-to-face debate with the major candidates. No more. And despite the socialists' monopoly on the media and leftist control of the universities, VOX is connecting with ordinary Spaniards. And here's the kicker for the socialists: Abascal is not their best orator. That would be the irrepressible Javier Ortega Smith.
Still early days for VOX, but the momentum is with them.
Of course, if you trawl through ABC or El Mundo, then you are bound to get the most favourable impression that Abascal made. Our local paper (El Correo) didn't say anything about Abascal being the most impressive. It mostly concentrated on how to break the deadlock of "pactos".
I haven't read Gara or Berria as they are in Basque and too difficult for me to read. Though of course they tend to the left so Abascal wouldn't get a favourable report!
Amongst other things though, it stated what Abascal said about Catalunya; "The 1st thing we'd do is take control of Catalunya, declare the political parties illegal & close down TV3". That's what dictators usually do; take control of the media & ban political parties that don't agree with them.
Have you listened to this?:
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/11/05...06_985776.html

SpMo Nov 5th 2019 12:21 pm
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Originally Posted by 1sexsmith (Post 12759149)
Have you actually read all these publications in Spanish? I have read El Pais today. It does not anywhere say that it VOX was the strongest. It has a panel of commentators the majority who claim Sanchez was the winner. One panelist argued for Abascal !!!!. So please stop spreading false information.
I was reading through online polls run by these publications last night. That is, the responses of people - not editorial boards. Abascal won. Sanchez lost. I cannot yet post my links as apparently I have to have done a certain number of posts, and this is my 3rd. Hopefully I will be able to before Sunday. My question to you: did you even watch the debate? As for your claim of "false information", dream on.

SpMo Nov 5th 2019 12:26 pm
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Originally Posted by Retired in Euskadi (Post 12759074)
What is difficult for "ordinary" Spaniards (assuming they exist) to understand is the depth of dread & fear that an ultra right party such as VOX instils in the minds of Catalans & Basques, who were forbidden to speak their own languages in the street under dictator Franco. They have different cultures & language enough for many of them to consider Spain another country. Vox would not tolerate any dissent & would wish to get rid of 'las autonomias' on a par with abolishing Wales, Scotland & N. Ireland so as to bring them into the "English" fold.
There has to be dialogue & more dialogue and for Madrid (Spain) to accept the rich diversity of its regions, not to 'dictate' to them what it thinks is best.
Ah, Franco? Happy to have that debate any time. The ragtag of socialists, communists and separatists sought direct confrontation and got their jaw broken by Franco's forces. Thank God. Despite the totalitarian thought police trying to suppress the truth about Franco and the CW, the truth is slowly emerging. Franco saved Spain from becoming a Soviet satellite.

SpMo Nov 5th 2019 12:53 pm
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Originally Posted by 1sexsmith (Post 12759149)
Have you actually read all these publications in Spanish? I have read El Pais today. It does not anywhere say that it VOX was the strongest. It has a panel of commentators the majority who claim Sanchez was the winner. One panelist argued for Abascal !!!!. So please stop spreading false information.
Sanchez the winner? You have got to be joking. Lo Pais? Really? Think for yourself, man. Gabilondo claims Sanchez because the others went for him but he escaped uninjured? The guy spent half the debate staring at his navel and pretending to make notes or find a paper. He didn't answer the difficult questions asked of him. Sanchez is terrified of public debates. The turning point for Abascal in the public view was his appearance on El Hormiguero. Trying to marginalize somebody and avoid debate by calling them "fascist" or "ultra right this" and "ultra right that" is a puerile tactic that only gets you so far - particularly when you realize that your interlocutor is a solid bloke speaking common sense.

1sexsmith Nov 5th 2019 1:11 pm
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
El mundo ( centre right) published a poll based on the readers of various papers. Presumably you refer to this . However it is not quite the same as claiming that was the actual papers line.
Anyway I really dont think we should be opening up a possible debate about the virtues of Franco. There are plenty of other sites that are better equipped for that .Bye

SpMo Nov 5th 2019 2:38 pm
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Originally Posted by 1sexsmith (Post 12759251)
El mundo ( centre right) published a poll based on the readers of various papers. Presumably you refer to this . However it is not quite the same as claiming that was the actual papers line.
Anyway I really dont think we should be opening up a possible debate about the virtues of Franco. There are plenty of other sites that are better equipped for that .Bye
No, El Mundo published the results of various papers' polls. That is different to what you are saying. And I did not claim the results were the "actual papers line." I said "according to surveys". Surveys among their readers. For example (from the El Mundo round-up): "Los resultados de la encuesta El País siguen la misma dinámica. Con 169.179 votos y tras haber sido cerrada durante la madrugada por "motivos informativos", los lectores de El País dan también la victoria a Santiago Abascal, con un 35,43% de los votos."
You accused me of "spreading false information." Perhaps you'll be man enough to own your mistake.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...3a9b1a6ea2.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...4bc15cca75.jpg

Retired in Euskadi Nov 5th 2019 3:34 pm
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Originally Posted by SpMo (Post 12759231)
Ah, Franco? Happy to have that debate any time. The ragtag of socialists, communists and separatists sought direct confrontation and got their jaw broken by Franco's forces. Thank God. Despite the totalitarian thought police trying to suppress the truth about Franco and the CW, the truth is slowly emerging. Franco saved Spain from becoming a Soviet satellite.
He may have saved Spain from the communists, true, but at what cost? And his relentless iron fist to crush any opposition, including indiscriminate bombing of Guernica (on a Monday market day with maximum people) & Durango, not to mention his violent suppresion of the Basque people & their culture after the war don't exactly make him a hero here. It's no wonder Basque extremists took their fight to him and his regime. Unfortunately the Catholic church didn't exactly come out popular either.
But heh, we are now in a democracy where we tolerate each others' point of view, verdad? Let's live and let live.

rachelk Nov 6th 2019 4:48 pm
Re: Santiago Abascal steals the show in political debate
 
Santi Abascal today. I'm not a fan



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...d465d2548f.jpg


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