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residency or not

residency or not

Old Aug 1st 2005, 6:05 pm
  #16  
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Smile Re: residency or not

Hi glynis,

I have been taking some time to research all my references before I responded to your post. I am in a similar position to you in that at 60 retired early and intending to spend long winters in Esuri I will want to be confident of Health cover at least cost. Kath is 60 also but it is simple for her since she already draws State Pension and will therefore be covered by the E 121 system.

Do I take a chance with the E 111 or go for the E 106 and hope the cover lasts until 65. There are different interpretations in each of the books. I read Blevins paragraph and thought this is the way foreword, but it is very carefully worded.

It talks about Class 1 or 2 NI contributions and the reciprocal arrangements applying through the E106 just as if you were in UK. I think this is correct and would work despite what the clerks at DWP have said.

However we are looking at Class 3 contributions, or in my case credits, and Blevin says that the 106 works if your UK NI contributions are up to date and you have recently paid contributions(page 77). This you would be doing but he further qualifies this by saying that you should be eligible for "short term benefits" and I don't think that Class 3 gives this entitlement.

One thing all the books agree on is that close to retirement keeping the class 3 payments up to date to enhance your retirement pension is well worth it. If by some subterfuge this can give you Health cover as well so be it.

Regards,

John.



Originally Posted by glynis
Thanks for all that.

I have just read in Blevins financial guide that you can opt to pay extra contributions to UK and extend your E106 for five years, which is all we would need. If it is £6 per week or roughly £50 per month for a couple it may be worth doing rather than to pay out for private insurance in Spain which to be honest we just couldn't afford.
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Old Aug 1st 2005, 6:48 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: residency or not

John, I believe that if your partner is eligible for healthcare with an E121, you can also get healthcare as a "dependent"!

Glynis, and anyone else in a similar position, check out: -www.ukgovabusesexpats.co.uk (click on Europe & Health care in EU.)
I followed the information given and although it took a lot of time and number of visits to various health centres/social security offices, I now have my health card and am registered with a doctor.
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Old Aug 1st 2005, 7:48 pm
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Smile Re: residency or not

Hi Shoo,

Yes I agree that is what it seems to be saying is, that if one of you registers as a retired state pensioner for healthcare (E 121), then it covers other dependant members of the family in the household.

I think they expect the retiree to be the male partner and that your Civil State (Estado Civil) would be "comunidad de bienes" having common ownership of assets. For inheritance tax purposes, we have decided that we shall have separate ownership of assets "separacion de bienes" just as we have owned our house here in UK as Joint Tenants not Tenants in Common.

Again there is not the English equivalent of Estado Civil and it covers much more than an item of property such as your house, it is the way you want to conduct all of your affairs.

We English are complicated in our wants and needs and our systems in UK have evolved to fit them. The Spanish system has evolved in a different way to suit Spanish requirements and we have arrived trying to bend it to fit us with I must say some help from the EU. Its just that the drafters of the various bits of legislation in Madrid and Brussels did not account for the wiles of the Brits.

Regards,

John.

PS we will give all avenues a thorough looking at, to mix my metaphors.


Originally Posted by shoo
John, I believe that if your partner is eligible for healthcare with an E121, you can also get healthcare as a "dependent"!

Glynis, and anyone else in a similar position, check out: -www.ukgovabusesexpats.co.uk (click on Europe & Health care in EU.)
I followed the information given and although it took a lot of time and number of visits to various health centres/social security offices, I now have my health card and am registered with a doctor.
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Old Aug 1st 2005, 8:25 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: residency or not

Originally Posted by John & Kath
Hi Shoo,

Yes I agree that is what it seems to be saying is, that if one of you registers as a retired state pensioner for healthcare (E 121), then it covers other dependant members of the family in the household.

I think they expect the retiree to be the male partner and that your Civil State (Estado Civil) would be "comunidad de bienes" having common ownership of assets. For inheritance tax purposes, we have decided that we shall have separate ownership of assets "separacion de bienes" just as we have owned our house here in UK as Joint Tenants not Tenants in Common.

Again there is not the English equivalent of Estado Civil and it covers much more than an item of property such as your house, it is the way you want to conduct all of your affairs.

We English are complicated in our wants and needs and our systems in UK have evolved to fit them. The Spanish system has evolved in a different way to suit Spanish requirements and we have arrived trying to bend it to fit us with I must say some help from the EU. Its just that the drafters of the various bits of legislation in Madrid and Brussels did not account for the wiles of the Brits.

Regards,

John.

PS we will give all avenues a thorough looking at, to mix my metaphors.
When I spoke to the Benefits Agency today they also confirmed that if one spouse retired first the other could "piggy back" off the other for their free healthcare. They also said they were aware of people living in Spain using the E111's long after they should and they would be caught up with.

She also said the old Class 3 stamps were either not in existence any longer or could not be used.
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Old Aug 3rd 2005, 9:30 am
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Default Re: residency or not

That doesn't make sense that you can register in one part of Spain for free health care and not in another! You are either covered or you or not....what about people coming into the UK who have never paid into either the UK system or into their own countries, i.e. any of the eastern european countries. Anyway I think I am onto a loser but one has to explore every possibility. Perhaps I should make a claim under the Human Rights Act that I am being denied any sort of health care. By the way I have paid all my N.I. stamps to qualify for a full state pension in four years.
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Old Aug 3rd 2005, 4:58 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: residency or not

I’ve read somewhere that, if you take up “residency� in Spain you forfeit the right to healthcare in the UK, you have to obtain the Spanish equivalent of an E111 if you want to visit your homeland.
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Old Aug 3rd 2005, 5:11 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: residency or not

Originally Posted by shoo
I’ve read somewhere that, if you take up “residency� in Spain you forfeit the right to healthcare in the UK, you have to obtain the Spanish equivalent of an E111 if you want to visit your homeland.
Part of the Department of Health website discusses eligibility for treatment under the NHS: http://www.dh.gov.uk/PolicyAndGuidan...704&chk=mRntQ9.

Essentially, the NHS provides free treatment for those people who are deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK.

So yes, if you've moved to Spain (or anywhere else outside the UK), you are generally not eligible. Previous taxes and NI payments are not the relevant point here. These rules of eligibility were in place at the inception of the NHS, and the theory of it has not deviated much since then. In practice, however, the rules of eligibility have not always been consistently applied, which can lead to confusion and worse. There is anecdotal evidence that they are now being much more rigidly applied, especially when it comes to major (and therefore expensive) treatment.

Therefore, in practical terms, British citizens who are living outside the UK ought not to count on being able to access free NHS treatment, and in particular ought not to assume that they can visit the UK and try for elective surgery and the like as an NHS patient. Indeed, non-resident citizens ought to make the same arrangements for travel health insurance as they would make when visiting any other country.
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Old Aug 3rd 2005, 5:56 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: residency or not

Originally Posted by shoo
I’ve read somewhere that, if you take up “residency� in Spain you forfeit the right to healthcare in the UK, you have to obtain the Spanish equivalent of an E111 if you want to visit your homeland.
That is right. You are only entitled to emergency healthcare whilst visiting Britain. There has been a lot of articles in the press about "health tourists".

I suppose if you had an address to use in the UK and kept your Dr you could still visit and also get referrals to hospital if necessary.

I believe my brother-in-law's girlfriend has just been back to the UK for a hospital test of some sort, although I don't imagine she has applied for residency or registered in Spain like a lot of people who are ghosts there really. If everyone did register at the local town hall the local authorities would get more police etc and better services would be offered as it is dependant on how many people are in the area.
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Old Aug 4th 2005, 6:49 am
  #24  
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Default Re: residency or not

The E111 is intended for emergency cover in the short term. To suggest that folks abuse the system and become health tourists in not on ! They would then be cheating the system both here in Spain and in the UK !

We buy annual health insurance from Sanitas. Aged 54/42 we pay around 900 euros a year.

Also as I have my own company in Spain, we contribute to the Spanish Social Security fund which allows us to use the Health Service.

Residency - This took us 4 months in total when we arrived here, in the Malaga area, about 4 years ago; I'm not sure which area it takes 2 to 2.5 years ? Interesting regional variations.
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