Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

http://www.roundtownnews.com/rtn-fea...thorities.html

Reading one of the free newspapers I came across this article.

Apparently a new Royal Decree was approved on 15 November 2012.
It states that all individual assets with a value of €50.000 located abroad as at 31 December 2012 must declare them to Spanish tax authorities by March 2013. This includes all accounts with financial institutions, custodian accounts, real estate, etc.

Has anyone got any further input please?
Once declared will it be taxed?

I would imagine that anyone with a house in UK, even jointly owned, would fall into this category.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

I thought that it was always all your worldly assets.

Rosemary

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

me too.............:confused:

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Same in France

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

OK, you always have to declare your worldwide assets but!!

1 this is a new Royal Decree this month
2 it mentions a specific amount
3 it mentions a timescale when you hold the assets and
4 a deadline for declaring them

so what is it about?:eek:

Is it a new attempt to get back some money into the economy?

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

It's a clampdown on people who have money invested offshore and not declaring it which is tax evasion.

The existing requirement to declare all assets is mainly related to wealth tax which was reintroduced last year but unless you have total assets over the tax threshold which is now very high, there is no obligation to make a wealth tax declaration or declare your assets. Any income from those assets would, of course, be declared on your income tax declaration but even then they do not have to be specifically identified.

It think this new incentive is different to the wealth tax requirements and relates to income generated from assets abroad usually in tax havens.

No doubt it will become clear in due course but there would need to be some way of making this declaration. It would not be on your normal tax return unless that is significantly changed and anyway that isn't due until the end of June rather than the date mentioned in the article.

If you have a few undeclared millions stashed away in the Cayman Islands I would be a bit concerned but if you have a semi in Romford I wouldn't panic!

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

surely all to do with the wealth tax

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

erm, if you have millions secretly stored in the Caymans, and it's already tax evasion by law, then what good is another law making it illegal going to achieve?

Even more illegal than before? Is that like being more pregnant than before?

??

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

From what I understand it, the law clearly outlines what the penalties will be

There are 3k euro fines for every piece of information that has not been declared, plus another 3k for every time you have not paid the correct tax

So theoretically, if you have 2 bank accounts in the UK that you did not declare to the Spanish tax office that have earned you 10 pence interest in each one, then the Spanish tax office can fine you 12,000 euros

Its definitely worth while declaring every bank account you have!

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Well, that sounds fair. After all, 10 pence is 10 pence. Well worth €12K to make sure its declared and taxed.

But I'd have to think making it that easy to collect big fines makes the chance of error rather astronomical. I'd reckon that nearly every resident of Spain is guilty.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

What they are trying to do is persuade people to declare their worldwide assets

Apparently they are going to be quite agressive in handing out the fines. And of course all offshore and non-resident bank accounts are now legally obliged to pass on information to the relevant tax authorities

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

True to the extent that Switzerland & Liechtenstein impose EU withholding tax on accounts held by EU citizens, and a few Caribbean islands have agreed to reveal account details upon request of an EU government, but most OECD-compliant tax havens are only obliged to reveal account details ONLY when indisputable evidence of international criminal activity can be presented. But in no tax haven is reporting account holders' assets an "automatic" function.

It should be noted that in many tax haven jurisdictions, an accusation of "tax evasion" is not considered legal cause for revealing account holders' identities or even confirming that a specific individual is the beneficiary of an account. Besides, in almost all cases, there is a corporate identity which holds the account, and the actual individual who technically owns the assets is completely off the books anyway.

So again, if you have €20 mil stuffed into an offshore account held by an unrelated corporation, it will be pretty difficult for any government to acquire any useful details. The tax authorities would have to acquire evidence of movement of money between the suspected individual and an offshore account which can't be explained, and start the investigation from there. Most people get caught simply by living a lifestyle they can't possibly afford on what they declare.

In any case, hiding large sums is so prolific these days (millions of people engage in it), that as long as the individual doesn't wave a "tax evader" flag saying "come get me", the chances of getting caught are still pretty nil.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

You will find that if you open an offshore bank account nowadays that you need to provide evidence that you are not money laundering, and you must send them your tax number in your country of residence because every year they will send a summary of your interest gained to your resident tax authorities

This is certainly true in Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Gibraltar, Switzerland etc.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

KYC and anti-laundering rules apply to all OECD compliant banks everywhere (obvious exceptions are fake banks, which have massive difficulties transferring funds in and out of the system).

But only certain jurisdictions have signed on to the EU savings directive. The channel islands are in that category, along with Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Cayman Islands. AFAIK, BVI, Seychelles, Belize, Panama, Hong Kong and many others have not signed on.

Besides, if the individual isn't the official beneficiary on the account, it's much more difficult to pin tax evasion on them, unless of course, they clearly live well beyond their declared means, which is how most cases are revealed, and eventually are charged.

The other way is through illegal espionage conducted by certain EU governments. Liechtenstein tax affair

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

I've got an offshore account in Gibraltar and I only had to produce the usual proof of identity and address to open it. No requirement to provide a tax number at all. I was merely informed that the interest is paid gross and it is my responsibility to declare it to the tax authorities.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

That's usually all they ask for; Proof that you actually exist (and enough information to do a background check, usually using services such as World Check.

If you were moving millions through that account, you can bet that serious questions about source of funds would quickly be asked, and the money frozen until you can prove the legitimacy of those funds.

Notwithstanding evidence of criminal activity, unless some government tax authority issues a court order to release the information, there is no obligation to provide account information to anyone. And AFAIK, it's illegal to disclose any information to any third party without a court mandate to do so.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

When did you open it?

I opened an account in Gibraltar a few years ago and didnt have to give them my Spanish tax code

But I've recently been enquiring about offshore accounts and all the banks I've been talking to request it. It is a new requirement

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Gibraltar isn't really a "tax haven". Try Seychelles, Panama, Belize, St. Lucia, BVI, even Singapore and Hong Kong...

But beware that "credible" offshore banks usually require large minimum balances and impose hefty transfer fees. HSBC and Barclays both make big BIG money in offshore.

But if you really want to protect yourself, you should set up an offshore corporation, hire a nominee director, open the account in the name of the corporation, and conduct all transactions in the name of the corporation.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

I dont want to avoid tax, I actually want to pay it, as everyone should

My warning was that most people on this forum will have bank account outside Spain, either in the UK, or offshore. The new law means that they could be fined heavily if they do not declare the existance of these accounts, and of any interest generated to the Spanish tax authorities

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

I have just had a look and I have one account earning interest - a princely 0.89% of £couple of hundred is a sum to really rock the Bolsa off its tiny little feet.

but then its easier to chase all those money grabbing expats of various countries than it is to chase the bank accounts of the good old boy politicians, national and local
:sneaky:

`

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

What are you talking about? It is one law for everybody

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Obviously everyone is supposed to declare their world assets, but I think that date was the end of the amnesty, if you were hiding money in an offshore account to avoid tax? If you declared it before the amnesty was up you would only have to pay 10% tax.

But I could be wrong. :unsure:

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Yes, it is the end of the amnesty. And after this date there will be severe penalties for every piece of information that you have not declared, as I stated previously

I'm not sure how much tax you are meant to pay if you declare now. I actually thought it was a chance for people to declare their assets and pay no back tax

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Naarh, much easier than that.

I opened one in the Isle of Dogs. I bet they won't think of looking there!:p

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

And how do you actually declare it? I think that's what the OP was asking. Do you wait till you do your IRPF returns in May?

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

You need to fill in a form for each bank account that you own, both for those in Spain and those outside of Spain. I cant remember the name of it, but I think you can download it from the hacienda website

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

I first opened an account about 4 years ago and opened 2 new ones with the same provider in February of this year. I can't really see why when you opened it should be an issue as surely if it is now a requirement the provider would have to write to all existing account holders to request the information.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

More info about the amnesty and declaration:

"Anyone opting to use this amnesty to regularise undeclared assets must submit a special return (Form 750) by 30th November 2012. They have to detail all their undeclared assets and income, and pay a one-off tax liability at the same time. There are no provisions for deferring payment or instalments.

The tax liability is 10% of the undeclared assets – it does not apply to undeclared income, but to the value of the assets connected to or acquired with the undeclared income.

As a general rule, the value to be declared is the acquisition cost of the asset (or the acquisition value corresponding to the undeclared income if the asset cost more).

In the case of bank accounts, the value to be reported is the amount on deposit at 31st December 2010. The cash needs to be deposited into an account in Spain or another EU country before Form 750 is filed. This will ensure that going forward Spain receives the full amount of tax due.

There is an option to declare higher bank balances prior to 31st December 2010.

Submitting Form 750 and paying the 10% tax regularises the undeclared income for income tax, corporation and non-resident income tax purposes. All tax on the undeclared income will be treated as having been paid; income or gains cannot be subject to further tax. The owner is also exonerated from any penalties, surcharges and interest on the overdue tax."


The form you need is MODELO 750. Here is a guide on how to fill it in.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

I'm not sure this is the same thing.

RTN is talking about a new law that was introduced in November this year. The amnesty law was introduced in March this year and runs out at the end of this month. By all accounts it was a big flop and they only raised €150 million instead of the €2.5 billion they were hoping for.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

not as much fun when you hold your annual shareholders meeting at ........

now those are places for a shareholders meeting
:thumbup:

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Oh well, they have one more day to apply so maybe the remaining billions will come pouring in over the weekend. :flypig:

Hopefully there will be plenty of publicity about the new requirements nearer the time, as there doesn't seem to be much info on the Hacienda website at the moment, just a press release.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Just found this detailed article about the new law.

If you have less than €50,000 worth of assets outside Spain (including bank accounts, balance as at 31 December 2012) you don't have to do anything. Otherwise you have to make a declaration by 31 March 2013, but the form doesn't seem to be available yet.

New Asset Reporting Law For Spanish Residents

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

to quote one sentence -

"If the value of your total assets in each class is less than €50,000, you are not obliged to report"

as there are 5 "classes" then this could mean you would require a total asset pot of €250,000 - but if more than the €50,000 in any one class you would have to report it.

`

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Good job someone's paying attention to the detail ... :thumbsup:

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Apparantly there was a rush at the end and E1.5billion was reported.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Just a thought what about those that had ISA's in the UK before moving and legally are entitled to retain but not top them up if resident in Spain. If they have had them since say the beginning and put full amount in they could have quite a bit. They are tax exempt UK but require to be declared as worldwide asset in Spain? and taxed so defeats the benefit of retaining them>

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

Where do we get this form from? any updates welcome.
Thanks.

Re: Reporting of Assets Outside Spain
 

You need to have a look at the current thread on the subject but in simple terms you will probably need to see a gestor as the details can only be submitted online.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=784875

I am closing this thread as we don't need two threads on the same subject.