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Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

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Old May 13th 2016, 2:03 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by AlanR555
When I applied for my "Green" NIE, I was able to download a copy of my latest bank
account shewing that I had adequate funds. My recollection is that the threshold
is between 5000 and 6000 euros. However as an NIE is already held it may not be
necessary to go through that hoop again.

The EHIC has limited coverage. The NIE criteria are designed to demonstrate that
one will not be a burden on the Spanish health service (ie that costs can be
recharged to UK). Pensioners can get an S1 form from UK which means that the
liability is transferred but that results in non-eligibility in UK! Much to my surprise
the EHIC was accepted as adequate - with an expiry date in 2018. Of course,
EHIC is an EU initiative and thus I do not know position if Brexit arises.

My understanding is that one needs to register on the padron wherever one is
living - certainly if in Spain more than ninety days. There is an obligation to
apply for a permanencia (or residential extension) if in Spain for more than thirty days. Beyond 180 days and further complications can arise - although
in theory one can stay from early July one year until late June the next without
becoming tax resident as the clock resets at 1st January (assuming that this
is the first period in Spain in the first year and that one keeps out of Spain
for the remainder of the second year).
Thank you so much Alan for the info. May be looking to rent an apartment from around September time, as I'll probably be visiting family in Italy within the next couple of months.
Possible job prospect in southern Italy has arisen, but it is only a faint possibility. If successful however, I may work in Italy for a while, with a view to going to Spain in the future, if things don't work out in Italy.
Cheers once again for the info.
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Old May 13th 2016, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by AlanR555
When I applied for my "Green" NIE, actually signing on the list of foreigners - nothing to do with NIE although it will be shown on the certificate. I was able to download a copy of my latest bank
account shewing that I had adequate funds. My recollection is that the threshold
is between 5000 and 6000 euros. However as an NIE is already held it may not be
necessary to go through that hoop again. If you just have an NIE then signing on the list of foreigners DOES require proof of income and health care coverage

The EHIC has limited coverage. It covers you in an emergency (plus other situations - best to look at gov.uk page) The NIE criteria are designed to demonstrate that
one will not be a burden on the Spanish health service (ie that costs can be
recharged to UK) Nothing to do with the NIE. Pensioners can get an S1 form from UK which means that the
liability is transferred but that results in non-eligibility in UK! Much to my surprise
the EHIC was accepted as adequate - with an expiry date in 2018.This was a mistake on the part of the Spanish officials as once resident in Spain, the EHIC should NOT be used. Of course,
EHIC is an EU initiative and thus I do not know position if Brexit arises.

My understanding is that one needs to register on the padron wherever one is
living - certainly if in Spain more than ninety days. Once Spain becomes your main home, you must register on the padron There is an obligation to
apply for a permanencia (or residential extension) this doesn't exist??????!! if in Spain for more than
ninety days. Beyond 180 small point but it's actually a total of 183 days in any calendar year days and further complications can arise - although
in theory one can stay from early July one year until late June the next without
becoming tax resident as the clock resets at 1st January (assuming that this
is the first period in Spain in the first year and that one keeps out of Spain
for the remainder of the second year).
Points above
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Old May 13th 2016, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by snikpoh
Points above
I would only.be spending 6 months maximum (180 days) in Spain at any one time.
Would I be able to buy my medication from a pharmacy with just my euro health card?
I'd happily provide proof of funds & sign the padron if need be.
Surely 6 months renting is seen as a prolonged holiday, if you can afford to sustain yourself?
If, by chance, I did find a job, I'm sure my employers would be more than happy to vouch for me and help me with any other required legalities?
Or am I just hopelessly and romantically naïve?!
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Old May 13th 2016, 4:16 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by Nick1971
I would only.be spending 6 months maximum (180 days) in Spain at any one time.
Would I be able to buy my medication from a pharmacy with just my euro health card?
I'd happily provide proof of funds & sign the padron if need be.
Surely 6 months renting is seen as a prolonged holiday, if you can afford to sustain yourself?
If, by chance, I did find a job, I'm sure my employers would be more than happy to vouch for me and help me with any other required legalities?
Or am I just hopelessly and romantically naïve?!
It's not a question of spending 183 days maximum in Spain at one time - it's a TOTAL of 183 days in a calendar year.

You can buy medication over the counter - you won't need the EHIC. However, some medication requires a prescription and for this you will either have to have a euro prescription from a UK doctor or you will have to get one privately.

After 90 days you should sign on the list of foreigners, prove income etc. etc. Just be careful because you SHOULD then de-register when you leave so that you don't fall foul of the 183 day rule.

Long-term rentals in Spain start at 6 months, anything less is considered temporary (actually there's no minimum term but this is the generally accepted rule).


I hope you find a job but please don't hold your breath as many millions of Spaniards don't seem able to and many of them are desperate to find work.
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Old May 13th 2016, 6:56 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by snikpoh
It's not a question of spending 183 days maximum in Spain at one time - it's a TOTAL of 183 days in a calendar year.

Got it.
Calendar year starts January.
Shouldn't be a problem from September to March.
Would pop back to the UK for a bit, just to see family.

You can buy medication over the counter - you won't need the EHIC. However, some medication requires a prescription and for this you will either have to have a euro prescription from a UK doctor or you will have to get one privately.

It is prescription medication but only 1 pill a day. I don't mind getting pills privately, as long as its not extortionate.


After 90 days you should sign on the list of foreigners, prove income etc. etc. Just be careful because you SHOULD then de-register when you leave so that you don't fall foul of the 183 day rule.

I'm more than happy about registering after 90 days.
I'll have enough funds in my account to rent and take care of myself.
I didn't know about de-registering!
I didn't do that the last year when I spent a few months in Spain.
I still have my NIE paperwork though, so it shouldn't be too difficult to prove.

Long-term rentals in Spain start at 6 months, anything less is considered temporary (actually there's no minimum term but this is the generally accepted rule).
Noted.


I hope you find a job but please don't hold your breath as many millions of Spaniards don't seem able to and many of them are desperate to find work.
I understand.
I'm going mainly for an extended break and to do some writing.
I may also do an online T.E.F.L course, so I will be busy.
I rarely drink alcohol, don't smoke and will be living fairly frugally.
As long as I get some daily walking in, all I'll need is a basic internet connection, probably through Moviestar, and I'll be a happy bunny!

Thank you for your help.
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Old May 13th 2016, 11:45 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Thank you to Snikpoh for the corrections - demonstrating that it is easy to jump to
conclusions on the basis of observation.

It appears that I have signed on the list of foreigners (as I have the green card to
prove it!) and that that has nothing to do with NIE. Thus I seem to have acquired an
NIE without applying for one!!

I submitted proof of income and health care coverage BEFORE I had an NIE. That is
why I assumed that my application was for an NIE.

As my EHIC was accepted as adequate (albeit by a mistake on the part of the Spanish officials) are there any consequences? I do not consider myself as resident in Spain
and I keep a spreadsheet shewing how my "days in Spain" are less than 183 in any
calendar year. Fortunately, I have not yet needed to use my EHIC.

Once Spain becomes one's main home, one must register on the padron - but I have
registered without Spain becoming my main home. I did this in advance of getting an
NIE and before applying to sign on the list of foreigners (although I was not aware
that I was making such application, believing that I was applying for an NIE). There
are positive virtues to being on the padron (not least enhancement of the population
figures gaining more funding for local government) but are there any negatives?

After 90 days one should sign on the list of foreigners but then Snikpoh advises
de-registering when leaving so as not to fall foul of the 183 day Is this really
necessary? I have been registered since May 2015 and since then have travelled
back and forth between Spain and the UK on four occasions. I would claim that
I am not tax-resident in Spain - not only by the 183-day rule but also by way of the
centre of my economic activity being in UK. Am I opening up myself to some future
implications if I do not de-register? I do have an all-year rental contract that holds
over from year to year. I requested that specifically to get a certificate of residence
from the ayuntamiento entitling me to resident discounts.

My only economic activity in Spain consists of day-to-day living costs, my rental
and a direct debit for my broadband line rental. I do have a local bank account that
is registered to my UK address and I do own a vehicle registered at my address in
Spain - purchased in 2015 from a local dealer who undertook the relevant tasks of
registering it with Trafico etc in my name..

I note that Snikpoh is resident in peninsula Spain. All my activity is related to the
Western outpost of El Hierro. Are things differently organised here?
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Old May 14th 2016, 5:07 am
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

You asked about the (potential) downsides of signing on the padron - Signing on the padron is for people whose permanent residence is Spain (specifically the town where you sign on). This is so that the town can claim finances from Madrid.

By signing on the padron you are, in effect, declaring Spain to be your main residence. As such, this is a flag to hacienda that you should be paying tax here. So beware!


Whilst I say that you should de-register when you leave, I fully understand how impractical this is - I don't know what should happen for people in your situation. Just be aware that it is yet another indicator for hacienda.


By-the-way, when signing on the list of foreigners to get your green card, if you don't already have an NIE then they issue one at the same time. I can see why this can be confusing.
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Old May 14th 2016, 10:36 am
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by AlanR555
Thank you to Snikpoh for the corrections - demonstrating that it is easy to jump to
conclusions on the basis of observation.

It appears that I have signed on the list of foreigners (as I have the green card to
prove it!) and that that has nothing to do with NIE. Thus I seem to have acquired an
NIE without applying for one!!

I submitted proof of income and health care coverage BEFORE I had an NIE. That is
why I assumed that my application was for an NIE.

As my EHIC was accepted as adequate (albeit by a mistake on the part of the Spanish officials) are there any consequences? I do not consider myself as resident in Spain
and I keep a spreadsheet shewing how my "days in Spain" are less than 183 in any
calendar year. Fortunately, I have not yet needed to use my EHIC.

Once Spain becomes one's main home, one must register on the padron - but I have
registered without Spain becoming my main home. I did this in advance of getting an
NIE and before applying to sign on the list of foreigners (although I was not aware
that I was making such application, believing that I was applying for an NIE). There
are positive virtues to being on the padron (not least enhancement of the population
figures gaining more funding for local government) but are there any negatives?

After 90 days one should sign on the list of foreigners but then Snikpoh advises
de-registering when leaving so as not to fall foul of the 183 day Is this really
necessary? I have been registered since May 2015 and since then have travelled
back and forth between Spain and the UK on four occasions. I would claim that
I am not tax-resident in Spain - not only by the 183-day rule but also by way of the
centre of my economic activity being in UK. Am I opening up myself to some future
implications if I do not de-register? I do have an all-year rental contract that holds
over from year to year. I requested that specifically to get a certificate of residence
from the ayuntamiento entitling me to resident discounts.

My only economic activity in Spain consists of day-to-day living costs, my rental
and a direct debit for my broadband line rental. I do have a local bank account that
is registered to my UK address and I do own a vehicle registered at my address in
Spain - purchased in 2015 from a local dealer who undertook the relevant tasks of
registering it with Trafico etc in my name..

I note that Snikpoh is resident in peninsula Spain. All my activity is related to the
Western outpost of El Hierro. Are things differently organised here?
It sounds as if you are sailing quite close to the wind. Don't do anything which draws attention to yourself - like getting a speeding ticket even - which might trigger an investigation. You may just be alright legally but you won't know until it's tested.
As I have advised before I would keep stronger evidence to support your spreadsheet - anyone can knock up one of those in an afternoon and it might not carry any weight with the authorities.
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 1:00 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

very interesting thread...
I am operating as a digital nomad and part of this is not becoming a tax resident of any country ( helps with earnings when i dont have to give a lump of it to the gov)
So i have travel insurance for me and the family.. we are tourists in the country and pay our way for everything..
Currently we are heading over to the Canaries to do some writing and take a breather from the traveling aspect.. so we intend to spend 6 - 9 months ( 6 this year <183 days) and 3 next ( just to get out of the european winter.

we hadnt planned on registering anywhere.. as we dont intend to have permanent base.. looking at all the requirements.. just wondering if this is all based on people wanting to live permanently in Spain.. and something like a digital nomad or perpetual tourist just doesnt fit into the box ticking?

Also.. we dont need a Spanish bank account.. wont be buying a car.. IS there something we are missing which having a NIE will be necessary to have?

We will have flight tickets showing exactly when we entered and left, so i dont think we will have any issues with showing we are not a tax resident..
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by DeepSix
very interesting thread...
I am operating as a digital nomad and part of this is not becoming a tax resident of any country ( helps with earnings when i dont have to give a lump of it to the gov)
So i have travel insurance for me and the family.. we are tourists in the country and pay our way for everything..
Currently we are heading over to the Canaries to do some writing and take a breather from the traveling aspect.. so we intend to spend 6 - 9 months ( 6 this year <183 days) and 3 next ( just to get out of the european winter.

we hadnt planned on registering anywhere.. as we dont intend to have permanent base.. looking at all the requirements.. just wondering if this is all based on people wanting to live permanently in Spain.. and something like a digital nomad or perpetual tourist just doesnt fit into the box ticking?

Also.. we dont need a Spanish bank account.. wont be buying a car.. IS there something we are missing which having a NIE will be necessary to have?

We will have flight tickets showing exactly when we entered and left, so i dont think we will have any issues with showing we are not a tax resident..
What are the children doing for education?

Everyone, EVERYONE, is tax resident somewhere - take a look at the gov.uk website.
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 4:43 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by snikpoh

Everyone, EVERYONE, is tax resident somewhere - take a look at the gov.uk website.
Not necessarily. It is perfectly possible to become a "tax nomad" but it is very complicated and very few people would ever achieve that status.

What is a Tax Nomad? – A longer explanation | Tax Nomad
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 7:48 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by Fred James
Not necessarily. It is perfectly possible to become a "tax nomad" but it is very complicated and very few people would ever achieve that status.

What is a Tax Nomad? – A longer explanation | Tax Nomad
As regards to one of the OP's questions. As he wants to leave after June 23 and only spend up one year in Spain then he has two fiscal tax years. So he could just treat the period as a year long gap year and as a traveller I would suggest.

As to being a tax nomad. It sounds great. I think you would need to be Reggie Perrin or Lord Lucan to get away with it though
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Old Jun 21st 2016, 11:15 pm
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by snikpoh
What are the children doing for education?

Everyone, EVERYONE, is tax resident somewhere - take a look at the gov.uk website.
we home school the kids.. have done for years.. no issues with that

Its incorrect to say that you are always a tax resident..
and because we dont live anywhere long enough to become one.. we are of no fixed abode.. perpetual tourists

the last place we were tax residents was OZ.. and as Kiwi's they have no claim over our worldwide income.. and as we are no longer tax residents of OZ.. we are clear of any tax authority
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Old Jun 22nd 2016, 6:07 am
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

Originally Posted by DeepSix
we home school the kids.. have done for years.. no issues with that

Its incorrect to say that you are always a tax resident..
and because we dont live anywhere long enough to become one.. we are of no fixed abode.. perpetual tourists

the last place we were tax residents was OZ.. and as Kiwi's they have no claim over our worldwide income.. and as we are no longer tax residents of OZ.. we are clear of any tax authority

... you do know that home schooling in Spain isn't strictly legal?
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Old Jun 22nd 2016, 9:33 am
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Default Re: Renting, doctors & N.I.E number.

is it legal or not? ( seems like its a grey area - Unknown, as Constitution recognises freedom of education, but national education law stipulates that compulsory education must be met through school attendance.)

And does that only apply to permanent residents or tourists?

Because.. i am not a permanent resident.. i'm a tourist.. :-)

thats the beauty of being a Perpetual Tourist :-)

Bit like Germany.. where homeschooling IS illegal.. but not for us.. we are visitors

because we dont have a lifestyle that is the norm.. we legally fall through some of the cracks
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