sparky20006

Hi all
really interesting reading up on these forums.

Question as a newbie -

My wife and myself are aiming to retire early (in 2 years) when I hit 55. (Possibly hang in another year until I'm 56).

MY wife loathes the winters in the UK so I am looking into the following:

1. Sell our pretty large home in the UK which I foresee as being unmanageable both financially and physically when we hit our dotage.

2. Purchase two or three smaller first time buyer type houses for cash to rent out here in the UK. They wouldn't earn a vast sum, possibly between £1000 to £1300 per month which will be added to my early take pension of another couple of hundred a month.

We then considered spending all of the summer months in the UK in a caravan sited on a nice site we know of and when the weather starts to take a turn for the worse we 'break our camp down, put the caravan into storage, jump in the car with our small dog and head for the Costas for the winter months.

We would have enough cash to buy somewhere really cheap (around £30k) in Spain and are not bothered enough about sumptuous villas with pools that would be locked up all summer to sell a rent-earning house here to buy one.

Is this a viable plan or would we be better simply renting long term over winter? I quite like the idea of being able to just pop over the channel and drive down when it suits us as opposed to sorting out a rented property.

Thanks in advance guys and PS - We're not lifestyle addicts and are fully aware that 30 or so grand doesn't buy much - we just need a base away from the snow where my wife's condition (arthritic spine) doesn't play her up as much.
The reason I'm asking this now is that depending on what we choose to do will determine what I start doing now. Getting the house ready for selling and checking out other places in the UK and Spain.

(I have a very large motor home at the moment that we have just returned from 5 weeks touring in France in but don't relish spending the whole of winter in)

Kind regards again

mikelincs

If going to Spain, then I would rent, if you buy you will be hit for non resident taxes, and, although there are places for 30,000. they aren't all that good. Also remember the 183 day rule regarding being classed as resident in Spain. You should also consider that you would need a permanent address somewhere, I suspect that a caravan isn't likely to be classed as one in the UK being on a seasonal site.

sparky20006

Thanks for that Mike.

What exactly is the 183 day rule and how much does the Spanish non resident tax impact upon us Brits ? (simply put please).

Regarding the rental of somewhere where are the best places to look for property to rent long term over winter in the costas and what would be a 'typical' monthly rent for a small 2 bed apartment somewhere such as Alicante.


Just read up on the 183 day rule and I cannot see my wife and myself spending anywhere near that duration in Spain. She speaks of November through to the middle of March.

Neither of us would earn in Spain either so I see no issues there.

Does this make purchasing in Spain now more viable?
Regards

Paul.

stuboy

If you factor in the costs of selling a house and (potentially) buying 2 or 3 more properties then this will seriously eat into your equity.

If winter weather is your main consideration then you need to be as far south as you can get. £30k will get you nothing on the CDS. The further inland you move the colder it gets.

Without knowing all your circumstances my advice would be: Rent out your large house, live in the caravan for spring. summer and autumn and rent in the Canaries throughout winter.

chrisjolly

Just two points I would like to mention..1. The weather can be cold and wet in the winters now..unlike years ago and 2. Rent!
The prices of properties are still in decline and despite all the talk of a better market there are many many properties for sale.
Good luck!

mikelincs

If you are not, legally, a resident in Spain, then you will have to pay a non-residents tax on any property you own, this does vary on where you live. Living in Spain for 183 days a year does mean, legally, that you are resident, and must take out residency, not difficult, but does mean that you would pay tax on all your worldwide income in Spain. In fact the tax residency could kick in even earlier than that, and you would need to take proper advice on that.

missile

I guess you have no experience of being a landlord?

It is not easy money. Managing rental properties from another country is difficult and expensive if you use an agent.

I would not wish to live in a £30K property in Spain. It can feel cold during winter. Most of these are not well insulated and will cost a fortune to heat during winter.

Rosemary

Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. Myself and Fred James are the moderators for the Spanish forums whilst BEVS moderates Europe. Moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. This is so that members gain the information that they are looking for and find their experiences on the forums to be friendly and worthwhile.

Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

cricketman

Living in a £30k property in Spain will be absolutely miserable. It will either be a tiny studio flat in a rough neighbourhood or a delapidated tiny house next to a busy road or the middle of nowhere

Plus renting out 3 properties means you have 3 times the risk of something major going wrong. There is little value in buy to let nowadays anyway

The plan doesnt sound too good to me. You'd be better off renting your own house out and using the rent to fund your lifestyle in Spain. Or selling the house and using the cash to rent. Do not buy in Spain, rent is so cheap and gives you absolutel flexibility. If you do not like an area or simply want a change then you can just leave while it takes years to try and sell a house and each time you move you must be 10% property transfer tax

Porth

We have investment properties in the UK and run them well from France. However it is 10% plus vat each month of the rental. But still we are not bothered directly for maintenance issues. The agency have a ceiling and above that they ask us.

We rented in Spain last year and this site records our experiences. We return again in a week or so to see if we can truly find a long term rental.

If your wife has an arthritic spine please be careful on the health front I would research it somewhat. My wife suffers from RA (sorry Rheumatoid Arthritis) and our EHIC card did not cover us for expensive medication.

Would look at the FCO web site at Alicante on this point

sparky20006

Thanks for that everyone - a lot to take in.
I do have experience of being a landlord Missile having owned and leased / rented out apartments , houses and commercial premises so am fully clued up on its viability. It is the only way in the UK to acquire capital other than inherit or win it. Also a return of approx £14k pa on capital of £220000 far exceeds any other mid to long term investment you'll get UK side without buying into high risk stuff.

Re the properties I will look at being miserable could some of you take a look at these and tell me what I'm not seeing? I appreciate I'm not going to be sitting by the pool with a margarita like Joan Collins but I could be quite happy in them not looking out at dar sleety skies in January. This selection took me only 2 mins to find - I'm sure with a it more application and time I could locate better.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-...-44227204.html

1 bedroom town house for sale in Andalusia, Málaga, Villanueva del Trabuco, Spain

2 Bed Apartment for sale in Palomares, Almeria, Spain - AP1506748

Am I not seeing something here or being super naive?

The underlying point about me not knowing whether to buy or rent is the immediate nature of being able to pop there. For the past week it has done nothing but rain where we are in the UK and if I'm honest I would drive south right now if we had somewhere down there. I wouldn't have that kind of flexibility or ability to respond if we had to labour through rental sites first. Is this a correct assumption?

Someone suggested renting the big house we live in now. TBH I wouldn't as the idea of spreading the risk across three starter homes is far more secure This house without a tenant means zero income. One of the three houses without a tenant still means £1000 a month until it fills. I also have 2 sons here who would be able to 'keep an eye' on the places.

There you have it folks. Thanks for the input and keep the advice coming. I really do appreciate it.

PS - We definitely won't be residing in Spain long enough to hit the 183 day tax threshold so that's really not an issue. Nov, Dec, Jan. Feb and maybe the first week of March would be it before we returned for the Spring and Summer.

Someone said about Tenerife in winter. Nice idea but the pooch is like the wife's baby substitute hence the overland thing!

regards
Paul

cricketman

They look miserable to me, sorry

The one in Malaga province is absolutely tiny. Could you really be huddled up there in 35c temperatures? You would be living like the very poorest people in Spain. Not to be recommended

The one in Almeria province is probably in a ghost urbanisation barely inhabitated in the middle of nowhere, with a desert-like landscape with little or no signs of life nearby. A miserable existance.

You would get bored of the sun within a few weeks then what are you left with? If you doubled your budget then you may be OK

sparky20006

Apologies for being stupid but am I looking at these places differently from everyone else??

Here's one I just found on a spanish site after just 10 minutes. On the beach, by the harbour, clean, roomy enough for 2 and at a give away price.

If anyone thinks this is 'miserable' might I suggest a day in Manchester or Leeds in January or February !!

flat on sale in calle currica, 45. altea

Where does everyone else look for property?

I think I may well pop over there nearer the time and do the rounds of estate agents. Is this recommended?

Cheers

Paul

HBG

It's extremely difficult to comment on a small, specific place in this vast country and you are always likely to offend someone if you do.

It's easier just to comment on a big place, perhaps even an entire province. It's general knowledge that Murcia is the smallest and poorest autonomous region in Spain, with many deserts and crooked local councils who have cheated thousands of British expats out of their hard earned savings.

It still has some nice parts and it's cheap enough, and what's wrong with living in a desert?

And if you like a lot of noise, come and live in the Levante area of Benidorm. If you're gay, come and live in the Old Town of Benidorm.

If you want to live in real Spain, drive 50 miles inland from the coast and plonk yourself down in a Spanish town.

Whatever you do, Come on Down.

Rosemary

Altea is a lovely town which gets extremely busy with visitors wanting to see the old town which is up a very steep hill. Actually that is a point regarding your wife, how is she with walking up hills?

Rosemary