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The Real News is Disturbing

The Real News is Disturbing

Old Nov 4th 2014, 12:54 am
  #61  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by la mancha
CM, you say ‘They will be exciting times for sure!’
Yes indeed exciting

I cannot predict the future and I agree with you about the sceptism about how to balance the books. Podemos coming to power will put Spain out of the mutinational context which will render the EU and the World Bank as kind of pointless (in their current format), so it will change the world

But, this is democracy in action. It is what the people want. Of course communism ended up being evil in the USSR and China, but a communist regime among those lines is not being proposed

I am excited because this means the people are trying to change the world for the better rather than sending the odd charity payment which they can offset against income tax in order to pat themselves on the back

Democracy is about the people, something that has been long forgotten. I am glad that Spain has remembered! They are way ahead on this issue. I wouldn't be surprised if what happens in Spain now will happen to the UK in a few years time.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 1:00 am
  #62  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman
Yes indeed exciting

I cannot predict the future and I agree with you about the sceptism about how to balance the books. Podemos coming to power will put Spain out of the mutinational context which will render the EU and the World Bank as kind of pointless (in their current format), so it will change the world

But, this is democracy in action. It is what the people want. Of course communism ended up being evil in the USSR and China, but a communist regime among those lines is not being proposed

I am excited because this means the people are trying to change the world for the better rather than sending the odd charity payment which they can offset against income tax in order to pat themselves on the back

Democracy is about the people, something that has been long forgotten. I am glad that Spain has remembered! They are way ahead on this issue. I wouldn't be surprised if what happens in Spain now will happen to the UK in a few years time.
And if it all goes wrong you can get out and leave the rest to suffer. Okay.

The only way it will change the world is how the world sees Spain; a basketcase not worth lending money to, opening a business here, buying a property etc. etc.

This bunch of schoolboy-thinking communists will leave Spain in poverty in a very short time.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 1:04 am
  #63  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

"the odd charity payment which they can offset against income tax in order to pat themselves on the back"
Even though I know you can't resist swiping at something which you perceive dares to criticise Spain or the Spanish, even you have sunk to the lowest of the low this time by criticising those generous people who have given to charities and the like. How curmudgeonly!!
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 1:12 am
  #64  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by rspltd
"the odd charity payment which they can offset against income tax in order to pat themselves on the back"
Even though I know you can't resist swiping at something which you perceive dares to criticise Spain or the Spanish, even you have sunk to the lowest of the low this time by criticising those generous people who have given to charities and the like. How curmudgeonly!!
Exactly. I treated that (CM's) comment with contempt. The last survey |I could find showed that Britain is ranked as fourth in terms of the proportion of people donating to charity (72% of the population).
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 1:12 am
  #65  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman
Yes indeed exciting

I cannot predict the future and I agree with you about the sceptism about how to balance the books. Podemos coming to power will put Spain out of the mutinational context which will render the EU and the World Bank as kind of pointless (in their current format), so it will change the world

But, this is democracy in action. It is what the people want. Of course communism ended up being evil in the USSR and China, but a communist regime among those lines is not being proposed

I am excited because this means the people are trying to change the world for the better rather than sending the odd charity payment which they can offset against income tax in order to pat themselves on the back

Democracy is about the people, something that has been long forgotten. I am glad that Spain has remembered! They are way ahead on this issue. I wouldn't be surprised if what happens in Spain now will happen to the UK in a few years time.

How can I put this - politely - no chance. You suggest that you wouldn't be surprised if what happens in Spain will happen in the UK in a few years time.

Are you please for serious. So no Westminster village no banking sector no insurance sector no stock exchange no paying debts nationalising energy companies and the like? Cricketman I seem to remember that Communism, does not identify with Christmas and the like. So no religion as well?

Something happened many years ago on Runnymede so we overturn that as well? Do you envisage something approaching North Korea?

If it were to happen Spain that is then all the oxygen for the movement would be turned off overnight. So back to the barter system and the like.

Shall we all be able to use the various hotels on a free of charge basis? Or is that restricted to the elite such as in the true Russian period and with guest houses and the like in the forests around Moscow?

Then what is going to happen to Real Madrid and Barcelona?

Interesting times as you say but reality must come to the fore.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 1:14 am
  #66  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Cricketman the next thing you will tell me is that in a generation we could also see this development in the USA?
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 1:19 am
  #67  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Rosemary perhaps you could kindly read the lesson to CM on behaviour he obviously is a stranger to the idea.

Serious linking charitable payments to tax breaks is absolutely unacceptable behaviour. CM obviously has not been on our streets around this time of the year. Little old ladies struggling both in cash terms and weather wise looking into their purses and donating to the poppy appeal.

CM you should be ashamed of yourself. The next thing you will tell me is that you love bull fighting and agree with the treatment of hunting dogs when they are past their prime.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 2:16 am
  #68  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman
Podemos isnt an authoritarian ideology

Again you show zero understanding
I believe it is you who is missing the point, my friend.

What Podemos stand for has historically always resulted in Authoritarianism. Nice sentiment, brilliant theory, but it does not consider human nature, just as Karl Marx failed to do in the first draft.

Humans capitalise, and are naturally competitive. It's how they are, it's how they've always been, and at least in our lifetime and for about 1000 generations or more, they will continue to be so. You can prohibit capitalism and competition all you want, but humans will still find a way to "get around it". May as well ban sex, too. But that won't stop them.

Podemos has an interesting spin, but at the end of the day, it isn't all that earth-shattering, really. It's just another ironic human reaction to our competitive nature - jealousy of anyone who prospers more than us, yet subconsciously and intuitively seeking the very same or more prosperity for ourselves and our families.

No, the entertaining debate is how people would manage to "get around it". I imagine it would eventually become not unlike the Franco era, when "getting around it" was a fundamental part of life in Spain.

Besides, it's all conjecture anyway.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 2:41 am
  #69  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by Porth
CM obviously has not been on our streets around this time of the year. Little old ladies struggling both in cash terms and weather wise looking into their purses and donating to the poppy appeal.
I don't live in the UK, I live in Spain

Here I see little old ladies scraping money together to give to the beggers (mainly from Eastern Europe but in their 100s here in Oviedo). I also see them buying food from the supermarket and leaving it in the collection boxes at the entrance, and I see them volunterring their time to cook for the thousands of people who have nothing to eat each day

Spain does not lack charity, it lacks a decent political class and a sustainable economy

As for those commenting on communism, they are commenting on things that have happened in the past. Podemos aren't aching to recreate Soviet Russia, they want to give a dignified life to everybody. I can't wait for them to get started!
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 3:02 am
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman
I don't live in the UK, I live in Spain

Here I see little old ladies scraping money together to give to the beggers (mainly from Eastern Europe but in their 100s here in Oviedo). I also see them buying food from the supermarket and leaving it in the collection boxes at the entrance, and I see them volunterring their time to cook for the thousands of people who have nothing to eat each day

Spain does not lack charity, it lacks a decent political class and a sustainable economy

As for those commenting on communism, they are commenting on things that have happened in the past. Podemos aren't aching to recreate Soviet Russia, they want to give a dignified life to everybody. I can't wait for them to get started!
Well, considering that we in the west (that includes you) are beneficiaries of amongst the world's most prosperous economies, the world's best social systems, the highest standards of living and education, abundance of quality food and core sustenance, highest salaries, highest quality housing, extensive consumer protections, the world's strongest defences, lowest poverty, highest degree of personal freedoms, most choices, world's most "dignified" lifestyles... (shall I go on?)...

...somehow it occurs to me that perhaps throwing the baby out with the bathwater may be a bit premature?

Oh, and one more question... Oviedo is already utopia, so you wouldn't want those pesky Podemos bureaucrats messing with that, would you?

Last edited by amideislas; Nov 4th 2014 at 3:12 am.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 4:16 am
  #71  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman
As for those commenting on communism, they are commenting on things that have happened in the past. Podemos aren't aching to recreate Soviet Russia, they want to give a dignified life to everybody. I can't wait for them to get started!

If you can't wait for them to get started, you can actually have a taste right now. Venezuela, Cuba, Democratic People's Republic of Korea,.. are some examples of what you are looking for.

Podemos want to take property from one person and give it to another; under the pretense of organization, regulation, protection. They want to make plunder legal.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 4:18 am
  #72  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman
I don't live in the UK, I live in Spain

Here I see little old ladies scraping money together to give to the beggers (mainly from Eastern Europe but in their 100s here in Oviedo). I also see them buying food from the supermarket and leaving it in the collection boxes at the entrance, and I see them volunterring their time to cook for the thousands of people who have nothing to eat each day

Spain does not lack charity, it lacks a decent political class and a sustainable economy

As for those commenting on communism, they are commenting on things that have happened in the past. Podemos aren't aching to recreate Soviet Russia, they want to give a dignified life to everybody. I can't wait for them to get started!
‘As for those commenting on communism, they are commenting on things that have happened in the past.’

From the Podemos manifesto.

‘ rejects military interventions, that stands for an exit from NATO’, ‘the nationalisation of the private banking sector’, ‘ citizen debt audit that determines what parts of the debt are not legitimate; the illegitimate debts will not be paid’, and, ‘through the nationalisation and socialisation of energy firms’.

‘a programme to build public housing’, ‘opposes the cuts that are being applied in the name of austerity’, ‘rejects every form of privatisation of public services and common goods: education, health, justice, transport, information, housing and culture, that stands for its reversal in all of these and opts for their democratic management’.

And also:

People power. Politics that goes back onto the streets. Popular mobilisation, civil disobedience and confidence in our own abilities are essential.

Past or present, sounds the same to me.

And no one said Spain lacks charity. I answered your comment when you said care about one’s neighbours and society in general was a concept destroyed in the UK many years ago. And I replied that the UK lies 4th in the world –at the last count – for charity donations, 72% of the UK’s population. That does not include the physical charity work done by ordinary British people in healthcare and for the poor.

So, there are ‘ little old (Spanish) ladies scraping money together to give to the beggars, and volunteering their time to cook for the thousands of people who have nothing to eat’. Why? In order to pat themselves on the back? See? Doesn’t sound too the other way round, does it? (Not my views but said as an example only.)

You say you can't wait for them to get started!

Me, too. It’ll be interesting to see how Spain gets on when they hold out the begging bowl and no one’s looking. But then you won’t be there, will you.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 4:19 am
  #73  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman
I don't live in the UK, I live in Spain

Here I see little old ladies scraping money together to give to the beggers (mainly from Eastern Europe but in their 100s here in Oviedo). I also see them buying food from the supermarket and leaving it in the collection boxes at the entrance, and I see them volunterring their time to cook for the thousands of people who have nothing to eat each day

Spain does not lack charity, it lacks a decent political class and a sustainable economy

As for those commenting on communism, they are commenting on things that have happened in the past. Podemos aren't aching to recreate Soviet Russia, they want to give a dignified life to everybody. I can't wait for them to get started!
Cricketman I have always found you offensive and nothing much changes. You views on Spain are yours but you are selective and you fail to address issues which to the like minded people of europe are important. But we will forgive you.

I have just returned from doing some mundane things. In so doing I came across some buses with their windows from within blanked out in the bus station. There were poppies and the words 'We will remember them' Unless you lived and perhaps still live in a parallel universe in those lands far away the people who gave their lives in the various wars created an environment and from which you prospered. Please do not forget that and indeed I am supposing rightly or wrongly that some of your income base comes from a civilised society and which may or may not be the Uk.

Here I have an opportunity for you and the cost falls to me. Come back to the UK come to Maidstone and see what effort goes into making poppies. Unless you are humbled you do not have either a heart or a brain.

Finally I give you one last opportunity on the question of charity giving to make a full open and fulsome apology. If not what did the Jesuits say?

I really would like to meet you so we could have a meaningful discussion. However I think I would give it up as a bad idea for tunnel vision and all things Spanish is devoid of intelligent thinking.

You have lived for too long in a vacuum.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 4:22 am
  #74  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by la mancha
‘As for those commenting on communism, they are commenting on things that have happened in the past.’

From the Podemos manifesto.

‘ rejects military interventions, that stands for an exit from NATO’, ‘the nationalisation of the private banking sector’, ‘ citizen debt audit that determines what parts of the debt are not legitimate; the illegitimate debts will not be paid’, and, ‘through the nationalisation and socialisation of energy firms’.

‘a programme to build public housing’, ‘opposes the cuts that are being applied in the name of austerity’, ‘rejects every form of privatisation of public services and common goods: education, health, justice, transport, information, housing and culture, that stands for its reversal in all of these and opts for their democratic management’.

And also:

People power. Politics that goes back onto the streets. Popular mobilisation, civil disobedience and confidence in our own abilities are essential.

Past or present, sounds the same to me.

And no one said Spain lacks charity. I answered your comment when you said care about one’s neighbours and society in general was a concept destroyed in the UK many years ago. And I replied that the UK lies 4th in the world –at the last count – for charity donations, 72% of the UK’s population. That does not include the physical charity work done by ordinary British people in healthcare and for the poor.

So, there are ‘ little old (Spanish) ladies scraping money together to give to the beggars, and volunteering their time to cook for the thousands of people who have nothing to eat’. Why? In order to pat themselves on the back? See? Doesn’t sound too the other way round, does it? (Not my views but said as an example only.)

You say you can't wait for them to get started!

Me, too. It’ll be interesting to see how Spain gets on when they hold out the begging bowl and no one’s looking. But then you won’t be there, will you.
No running back to the UK with his tail beneath his legs. France would not have him. The Fifth Republique handles such things somewhat on a direct basis. Cricketman you are still travelling on a Spanish or UK passport or both?
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 4:33 am
  #75  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman
Yes indeed exciting

I cannot predict the future and I agree with you about the sceptism about how to balance the books. Podemos coming to power will put Spain out of the mutinational context which will render the EU and the World Bank as kind of pointless (in their current format), so it will change the world

But, this is democracy in action. It is what the people want. Of course communism ended up being evil in the USSR and China, but a communist regime among those lines is not being proposed

I am excited because this means the people are trying to change the world for the better rather than sending the odd charity payment which they can offset against income tax in order to pat themselves on the back

Democracy is about the people, something that has been long forgotten. I am glad that Spain has remembered! They are way ahead on this issue. I wouldn't be surprised if what happens in Spain now will happen to the UK in a few years time.
Cricketman I am surprised you cannot predict the future. I was relying upon your sage like guidance and judgment (spelt the legal way) Here we have had in the UK for about a 1000 years a legal system which has evolved. If Podemos get in will we have a sort of Hanging Judge Jefferies and on Bodmin Moor and when sheep thieves were sent to the gallows. Ou Mme La Guillotine peut-etre? Or where is Spain's equivalent of Tasmania? Asturias?
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