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The Real News is Disturbing

The Real News is Disturbing

Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:18 am
  #46  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
Yes

Firstly I can't vote in general elections, but my wife can. She will vote for them, and I will vote in local or European elections

But there is a danger that they will tax very strongly all foreign assets in which case I will have to think very carefully about whether we leave the country. I hope that it never comes from that and it probably won't but a decision will have to be made

Sometimes one must think about the greater good
Cricketman we have clashed in the past but that is the past. Here I believe that you are married to a Spanish national? That being the case what do the ordinary (and I am not even suggesting that you good lady wife is ordinary) Spanish people think about this new party. Do they realise the potential down sides or are they 'turned off' by the existing political situation. Perhaps a polling organisation should do a poll of say 10000 Spanish Nationals as against the views of isolated numbers.

However this upheaval is very seriously making me consider aborting our villa in Spain next February and again better the devil you know?

If this comes into being what about tourists what about the economy and we should all wear sackcloth and ashes?

The mountain range between France and Spain was always the boundary I suggest that not many people would cross that boundary if Podemos came into power?
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:23 am
  #47  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
Podemos isnt an authoritarian ideology

Again you show zero understanding
Dear Cricketman a little while ago we were reminded by Rosemary as to the very purpose of this site. As to zero understanding surely a more polite format would be 'a lack of understanding?' I would have phrased it that way but of course you have much more and a detailed understanding of matters Spanish and that I both understand and respect.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:32 am
  #48  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
Yes

Firstly I can't vote in general elections, but my wife can. She will vote for them, and I will vote in local or European elections

But there is a danger that they will tax very strongly all foreign assets in which case I will have to think very carefully about whether we leave the country. I hope that it never comes from that and it probably won't but a decision will have to be made

Sometimes one must think about the greater good
so - let's get this right...

You vote for a party that's going to impose a particular tax 'for the greater good'.

You then leave the country precisely because of that particular tax 'for the greater good'.

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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:33 am
  #49  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

I think most of the people posting on this thread are politically naive IMO

The reality is that if they are still leading the Opinion polls in January then the mainstream media will start looking for things to embarrass them. Given that they are supposedly the party of a cross section of Spanish people there are bound to be loads of skeletons in individuals closets So the Spanish media is likely to react in the same way as the English mainstream media have been doing to UKIP, i.e running constantly negative stories

Don't underestimate the establishment and the means they will go to to maintain the status quo.

Even though Podemos arrive at a point where they can make arrangements with fringe parties to hold the balance of power I feel the most likely outcome will be similar to whats happening in Greece with their extreme left wing party that is currently leading the polls.

Here is a link which makes interesting reading

From firebrand to PM-in-waiting, Greek leftist smells power | Reuters

IMO the thing is that it's easy to spout new popular initiatives but when they actually arrive in power the reality sinks in, does anyone really think that its in Spain's interest to leave the EU.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:40 am
  #50  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
so - let's get this right...

You vote for a party that's going to impose a particular tax 'for the greater good'.

You then leave the country precisely because of that particular tax 'for the greater good'.

Well, imagine I had £1 million in offshore bank accounts. I am not going to give Podemos all of that money for the pleasure of living in Spain

If they said that I had to move it onsure, or get taxed more heavily on it then sure, no problem

At the moment we don't know the details only the ideology and some quite vague goals
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:43 am
  #51  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by Porth View Post
Cricketman we have clashed in the past but that is the past. Here I believe that you are married to a Spanish national? That being the case what do the ordinary (and I am not even suggesting that you good lady wife is ordinary) Spanish people think about this new party. Do they realise the potential down sides or are they 'turned off' by the existing political situation. Perhaps a polling organisation should do a poll of say 10000 Spanish Nationals as against the views of isolated numbers.

However this upheaval is very seriously making me consider aborting our villa in Spain next February and again better the devil you know?

If this comes into being what about tourists what about the economy and we should all wear sackcloth and ashes?

The mountain range between France and Spain was always the boundary I suggest that not many people would cross that boundary if Podemos came into power?
The latest opinion poll was out yesterday. Podemos is leading all other parties, that is what ordinary people think. My wife went to a very posh private school but votes for the communists (Izquierda Unida) so isnt very ordinary

Podemos is an organisation made up of ordinary people and ordinary people have drawn up all their policies. If you want to know what ordinary Spanish people think then simply read their manifesto
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:46 am
  #52  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
Well, imagine I had £1 million in offshore bank accounts. I am not going to give Podemos all of that money for the pleasure of living in Spain

If they said that I had to move it onsure, or get taxed more heavily on it then sure, no problem

At the moment we don't know the details only the ideology and some quite vague goals
You might be happy in Cuba. Warm sunny climate, good health care, with the occasional rafts to Miami.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:56 am
  #53  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by Beaverstate View Post
You might be happy in Cuba. Warm sunny climate, good health care, with the occasional rafts to Miami.
I've spent two weeks in Cuba, around 10 years ago now. Very nice it was too
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 9:14 am
  #54  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

I find it interesting that while both Spain and to some extent the UK have suffered the same economic problems in the last 8 years, their extreme political party's ie Podemos in Spain and UKIP in the UK are picking up massive popular votes for different goals!

If only a left leaning party in the UK had had the foresight to tackle the problem that is migration they would already be outdoing the mainstream parties. What politicians in the UK are failing to grasp is that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with migration, there is something very wrong in that on putting a foot in the UK they are entitled to the benefits that everyone else has.

If they stopped the issuing of NI numbers and gave no handouts at all, much like everywhere else in europe, the problem of migration would virtually stop as nobody would want to make the journey over!
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 9:46 am
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by Bri and Katee View Post
I find it interesting that while both Spain and to some extent the UK have suffered the same economic problems in the last 8 years, their extreme political party's ie Podemos in Spain and UKIP in the UK are picking up massive popular votes for different goals!

If only a left leaning party in the UK had had the foresight to tackle the problem that is migration they would already be outdoing the mainstream parties. What politicians in the UK are failing to grasp is that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with migration, there is something very wrong in that on putting a foot in the UK they are entitled to the benefits that everyone else has.

If they stopped the issuing of NI numbers and gave no handouts at all, much like everywhere else in europe, the problem of migration would virtually stop as nobody would want to make the journey over!
The UK and Spain havent had the same issues over the past 8 years. Unemployment is just 6% in the UK, it is 24% in Spain

Immigration isnt actually much of a problem in the UK as you can see by the unemployment figures. Brits are using immigrants as a scapegoat for a rotton politican and economic system

Spain has a similar amount of immigrants as Britain but they don't get blamed here. In fact Podemos would give a universal income to everybody in the country, not just Spanish nationals

"Ordinary" Spaniards are left-leaning because they care about their neighbours and society in general. That concept in the UK was destroyed years ago by Thatcher and co.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 10:48 am
  #56  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Well, Podemos is giving hope to a lot of people who, since 2008, haven't had any. Perhaps it will work, perhaps not. But at the moment, they are in the lead according to the opinion polls - from nothing to front runner in ten months: makes them important.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 12:17 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
Podemos isnt an authoritarian ideology

If that's not authoritarian, I don't know what it is. They could go hand to hand with other commies regimes on the other side of the Atlantic. Like some others populist parties before Podemos they try to solve complex questions with simple answers.

For example if there is a huge debt to pay, they simply refuse to pay. So no more debt, problem solved.

Communism is not the answer to today's problems, and never will. I understand that given the current conditions (corruption, high unemployment,... ) it might seem the answer to some but it is not, it will only make things worse than they are now. I seriously think it will be a tremendous blow to a country's economy if the manage to win the next elections. As some have stated before international companies come to Spain to make money, but they don't come here to forfeit money so the government can pay minimal wages, health insurance, and so on to the rest of the population.

Sadly the current governing party does not offer enough credibility to face this challenge, nor does the main opposition party. There is a huge an uncertainty and that's specially frightening.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 12:22 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by vbedia View Post
If that's not authoritarian, I don't know what it is. They could go hand to hand with other commies regimes on the other side of the Atlantic. Like some others populist parties before Podemos they try to solve complex questions with simple answers.

For example if there is a huge debt to pay, they simply refuse to pay. So no more debt, problem solved.

Communism is not the answer to today's problems, and never will. I understand that given the current conditions (corruption, high unemployment,... ) it might seem the answer to some but it is not, it will only make things worse than they are now. I seriously think it will be a tremendous blow to a country's economy if the manage to win the next elections. As some have stated before international companies come to Spain to make money, but they don't come here to forfeit money so the government can pay minimal wages, health insurance, and so on to the rest of the population.

Sadly the current governing party does not offer enough credibility to face this challenge, nor does the main opposition party. There is a huge an uncertainty and that's specially frightening.
To be fair to podemos, they don't call themselves a communist party. I said that they are "effectively a democratic communist party". They are not authoritarian, they are participative. The policies are set by the people who go to their meetings, and anybody can choose to go to their meetings.

The argument is that if the liberal capitalist economy was working so well then there would not be 25% unemployment and two thirds of the population struggling to get to the end of the month

When you have nothing to lose, it is easy to choose to gamble it all
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 12:31 pm
  #59  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

CM, you say ‘They will be exciting times for sure!’

Nick Clegg said something similar re the Arab Spring. If Podemos gains overall power I cannot see this working out any better with policies such as ‘ rejects military interventions, that stands for an exit from NATO’, ‘the nationalisation of the private banking sector’, ‘ citizen debt audit that determines what parts of the debt are not legitimate; the illegitimate debts will not be paid’, and, ‘through the nationalisation and socialisation of energy firms’.

Also they want there to ‘be a programme to build public housing’, and ‘opposes the cuts that are being applied in the name of austerity’, and ‘rejects every form of privatisation of public services and common goods: education, health, justice, transport, information, housing and culture, that stands for its reversal in all of these and opts for their democratic management’.

Someone is going to have to pay for it. Who? If you are going to renege on debt then Spain will be cut off from the world banking system. So where do you think the money will come from, for example, to build all the utopian houses for the working brothers to live in communal harmony?

Their manifesto, as far as I can see – and it is only a translation – says nothing about job creation. Can you put me right on this?

Yes, we all know the present system is hopeless, not only in Spain but throughout Europe, but the problem is Brussels. Communism isn’t the answer to the PP and PSOE. Communism is not exciting. It is evil. You say you can leave the country if all does not go well, yet your wife will possibly vote communism into Spain, as will many others desperate for improvement. Same old same. Those who can will get out leaving the rest of your brothers to suffer. Does that bother you?

And do not equate immigration in the UK with Spain. They are two entirely different problems.

You say, "Ordinary" Spaniards are left-leaning because they care about their neighbours and society in general. That concept in the UK was destroyed years ago by Thatcher and co.’

The UK, and by that I mean British people, are one of the most generous donators of charity, both at home and abroad, both monetary and physically, in the world. You do not have to be a communist to care.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
CM, you say ‘They will be exciting times for sure!’

Nick Clegg said something similar re the Arab Spring. If Podemos gains overall power I cannot see this working out any better with policies such as ‘ rejects military interventions, that stands for an exit from NATO’, ‘the nationalisation of the private banking sector’, ‘ citizen debt audit that determines what parts of the debt are not legitimate; the illegitimate debts will not be paid’, and, ‘through the nationalisation and socialisation of energy firms’.

Also they want there to ‘be a programme to build public housing’, and ‘opposes the cuts that are being applied in the name of austerity’, and ‘rejects every form of privatisation of public services and common goods: education, health, justice, transport, information, housing and culture, that stands for its reversal in all of these and opts for their democratic management’.

Someone is going to have to pay for it. Who? If you are going to renege on debt then Spain will be cut off from the world banking system. So where do you think the money will come from, for example, to build all the utopian houses for the working brothers to live in communal harmony?

Their manifesto, as far as I can see – and it is only a translation – says nothing about job creation. Can you put me right on this?

Yes, we all know the present system is hopeless, not only in Spain but throughout Europe, but the problem is Brussels. Communism isn’t the answer to the PP and PSOE. Communism is not exciting. It is evil. You say you can leave the country if all does not go well, yet your wife will possibly vote communism into Spain, as will many others desperate for improvement. Same old same. Those who can will get out leaving the rest of your brothers to suffer. Does that bother you?

And do not equate immigration in the UK with Spain. They are two entirely different problems.

You say, "Ordinary" Spaniards are left-leaning because they care about their neighbours and society in general. That concept in the UK was destroyed years ago by Thatcher and co.’

The UK, and by that I mean British people, are one of the most generous donators of charity, both at home and abroad, both monetary and physically, in the world. You do not have to be a communist to care.
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