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The Real News is Disturbing

The Real News is Disturbing

Old Nov 3rd 2014, 3:16 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
There are really no similarities between Hollande and Podemos

Podemos are way more extreme, they propose changing everything, the very essence of our lives. They would effectively ban liberal capitalism within Spain

Projects, companies and individuals would be judged by how much good they bring to society, rather than how much % GDP they contribute. It is a paradigm shift like I said

It sounds impossible of course, but I'm game

If they get elected then that would be the second most important and influential event so far in the 21st century (after the 2008 crash) without a doubt. You cannot underestimate the importance of this. If Podemos succeed, or even if they don't, the consequencies are incredibly far reaching
So Cricketman better the devil I know? So stay put!
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 4:17 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by cricketman View Post
You can hardly accuse an association which is just 6 months old and have never had any power of being corrupt

Of course there are huge questions that need answering to help balance the books, but at the end of the day a well meaning ideal is better than one which deliberately impoverishes the poor to create a few billionnaires (liberal capitalism)

Podemos is basically a giant association of neighbours (as is my son's school by the way). If you are interested then get involved!

This is politics created by the people for the people
I have no doubt the intent is honourable. It always is.

Usually such revolutions are a reaction to something undesirable, such as poverty, apathy, pessimism, tyrannical rule, etc. ...

...all of which some people would like us to believe describes us perfectly, but in reality, compared to much of the rest of the world, the vast majority of us live like royalty with freedoms many could only dream of.

But politics is perception, innit?

Unfortunately, history shows that within only a few decades after the power to control every individual's destiny is handed over to bureaucrats, the predictable result is that bureaucrats inevitably end up in an exclusive club, enjoying all the perks and wealth, whilst the working class lives with whatever the bureaucrat "ruling class" decides they shall have - under their perfectly legal authority as the "ruling class". No, it's not intentional... People just wake up one morning and realise they've become completely subservient to a systematic fart-arsed rich-as-royalty bureaucrat...

The upside is that it inevitably results in yet another revolution to remove the "ruling class" from power, enabling the working class to (legally) prosper again.

...and if you think that's all bullshit... just look around. How many things in your life are already exclusively controlled by bureaucrats?
That's what we wanted.... right?

Last edited by amideislas; Nov 3rd 2014 at 4:26 pm.
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 4:34 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

The traditional parties don't seem able (or interested) to stop corruption, which is seen to be a problem by people who have been ripped off by the bankers, the judiciary and, above all, their political leaders since the 'crisis' of 2008. Podemos is something like the voice of the people - the sans culottes almost. Will it all go well? Let's hope so.
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 4:39 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Didn't George Orwell write a book along these lines a long time ago?
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 4:41 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by Lenox View Post
The traditional parties don't seem able (or interested) to stop corruption, which is seen to be a problem by people who have been ripped off by the bankers, the judiciary and, above all, their political leaders since the 'crisis' of 2008. Podemos is something like the voice of the people - the sans culottes almost. Will it all go well? Let's hope so.
Autocracies are always born of that very ideology. Always.

I'd argue that a massive amount of corruption has been driven out of the system. Still more to go, but it's nothing like it was a decade ago, when corruption and nepotism were simply how it was done.

But again, politics is perception. If you succumb to the notion that more politicians being jailed for corruption means there's more of it, you might want to consider for how long we didn't hear anything about it... (or lived with complete denial).
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 5:55 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

cricketman - are you saying that you will vote for them but then you might have to leave because of them?
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 6:11 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by Lenox View Post
The traditional parties don't seem able (or interested) to stop corruption, which is seen to be a problem by people who have been ripped off by the bankers, the judiciary and, above all, their political leaders since the 'crisis' of 2008. Podemos is something like the voice of the people - the sans culottes almost. Will it all go well? Let's hope so.
Very seriously do you believe totally in your prose? There is no chance.
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 6:13 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Autocracies are always born of that very ideology. Always.

I'd argue that a massive amount of corruption has been driven out of the system. Still more to go, but it's nothing like it was a decade ago, when corruption and nepotism were simply how it was done.

But again, politics is perception. If you succumb to the notion that more politicians being jailed for corruption means there's more of it, you might want to consider for how long we didn't hear anything about it... (or lived with complete denial).
When your mens rea tells you to take advantage to take brown envelopes and not to take the broader picture you are doomed. In the UK and France it happens it happens everywhere but in Spain it is a national sport.
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 6:53 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by Porth View Post
When your mens rea tells you to take advantage to take brown envelopes and not to take the broader picture you are doomed. In the UK and France it happens it happens everywhere but in Spain it is a national sport.
Well it certainly has been the national sport in the past. But the risks are a lot higher now than they ever were, as evidenced by the increasing numbers going to jail.

But I admit there are some advantages to the old "brown envelope" ways. At least you could get planning permission for your pool.

Still, I sense the Ajuntamentos are now at a loss to rationalise their petty inflexibility without tangible cause. They just can't make decent money from denying permission anymore. Nowadays, bureaucrats can get >caught< receiving those brown envelopes (god forbid!).

No, things aren't like the good old days...
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 6:59 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Well it certainly has been the national sport in the past. But the risks are a lot higher now than they ever were, as evidenced by the increasing numbers going to jail.

But I admit there are some advantages to the old "brown envelope" ways. At least you could get planning permission for your pool.

Still, I sense the Ajuntamentos are now at a loss to rationalise their petty inflexibility without tangible cause. They just can't make decent money from denying permission anymore. Nowadays, bureaucrats can get >caught< receiving those brown envelopes (god forbid!).

No, things aren't like the good old days...
Still like Father like son old habits die hard.
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 7:32 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by Porth View Post
Still like Father like son old habits die hard.
Well that may help explain the rise in popularity of an authoritarian ideology. Back to the good old days...
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 7:47 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

I'd like to introduce this famous quote and then ask how long before it affects Podemos??

Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority, still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority.

Lord Acton.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 7:44 am
  #43  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Now this is socialism in being and visibly so. Lord Kinnock'son Stephen who has spent most of his working life in Switzerland and whose wife is Prime Minister of Denmark has been elected as the prospective Labour MP for Aberavon. For those unsure as to Aberavon it is near Port Talbot.

He was accused last week of being parachuted in. He denied it. He has no relationship with Aberavon and local and better placed candidates have been shafted.

Do not quite know why I posted this but I suppose to vent my anger. And of course our Lord Kinnock just about managed a pass at University and his wife even worse.

Least I am shouted down my background is the Rhondda Valley and we would vote for a donkey as long as he had a red covering.
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:02 am
  #44  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
cricketman - are you saying that you will vote for them but then you might have to leave because of them?
Yes

Firstly I can't vote in general elections, but my wife can. She will vote for them, and I will vote in local or European elections

But there is a danger that they will tax very strongly all foreign assets in which case I will have to think very carefully about whether we leave the country. I hope that it never comes from that and it probably won't but a decision will have to be made

Sometimes one must think about the greater good
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Old Nov 4th 2014, 8:04 am
  #45  
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Default Re: The Real News is Disturbing

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Well that may help explain the rise in popularity of an authoritarian ideology. Back to the good old days...
Podemos isnt an authoritarian ideology

Again you show zero understanding
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