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Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Old May 11th 2019, 7:54 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Still no response from the OP?
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Old May 11th 2019, 9:05 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Feels like I've upset some people here with my amoral question, although it's worth highlighting that (so far) I am only a "thought criminal", as I'm still obviously a long way from getting to 183 days

The crux of the issue I have is that I have ties in UK, having lived there for many years (I'm not British, but do have a passport from an EU country) and if I go through the headache of telling HMRC I'm no longer resident, and registering here, then I may end up having to do the reverse fairly soon after.
If I was certain I'd be living here medium to long term, or if I was working, I'd register tomorrow.
The money aspect is not the driver of my hesitancy here - as I said, I'm already paying tax in the UK, and it's likely I'd owe little if anything to Spain after applying the offset (so apologies to the Spanish street cleaners on the forum - whichever option I take, you will likely not be getting any money from me )

Thanks for all the responses, whether helpful or amusing

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Old May 11th 2019, 9:15 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Originally Posted by Experimenter19
Feels like I've upset some people here with my amoral question, although it's worth highlighting that (so far) I am only a "thought criminal", as I'm still obviously a long way from getting to 183 days

The crux of the issue I have is that I have ties in UK, having lived there for many years (I'm not British, but do have a passport from an EU country) and if I go through the headache of telling HMRC I'm no longer resident, and registering here, then I may end up having to do the reverse fairly soon after.
If I was certain I'd be living here medium to long term, or if I was working, I'd register tomorrow.
The money aspect is not the driver of my hesitancy here - as I said, I'm already paying tax in the UK, and it's likely I'd owe little if anything to Spain after applying the offset (so apologies to the Spanish street cleaners on the forum - whichever option I take, you will likely not be getting any money from me )

Thanks for all the responses, whether helpful or amusing

Experimenter (A Remainer)
You seem to have your facts incorrect.

90 days is when you need to register on the foreigners register
183 is when you become tax resident.

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Old May 12th 2019, 7:58 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Originally Posted by Experimenter19
Feels like I've upset some people here with my amoral question, although it's worth highlighting that (so far) I am only a "thought criminal", as I'm still obviously a long way from getting to 183 days

The crux of the issue I have is that I have ties in UK, having lived there for many years (I'm not British, but do have a passport from an EU country) and if I go through the headache of telling HMRC I'm no longer resident, and registering here, then I may end up having to do the reverse fairly soon after.
If I was certain I'd be living here medium to long term, or if I was working, I'd register tomorrow.
The money aspect is not the driver of my hesitancy here - as I said, I'm already paying tax in the UK, and it's likely I'd owe little if anything to Spain after applying the offset (so apologies to the Spanish street cleaners on the forum - whichever option I take, you will likely not be getting any money from me )

Thanks for all the responses, whether helpful or amusing

Experimenter (A Remainer)
Good to see you did get back to us. From what your second post says dealing with HMRC re rental income would not be such a big deal. As Rosemary says you haven't reached 183 days yet but are beyond 90 days when you should register, many don't or certainly didn't but that's what you are supposed to do. Many of us are in a position that because of convenience or dealing with authorities etc we would prefer to not get involved in the Spanish system. However the law says one should do certain things within certain time frames, if you choose not to do that is a personal choice but that could have consequences and brexit may alter that from what one could get away with. It's your choice but most on here will simply tell you the legal way rather than advice you on best way you can live under the radar.
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Old Jun 25th 2019, 11:20 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

As a non-res, this year I will be getting near the limit of the 183 day rule.
But I just want to double check the current rule...
Is it 183 or 182 days in Spain - under current rules?
(I've also seen 180 days mentioned elsewhere)
Also, does anyone know what travel days count as.
Thanks for any info.
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Old Jun 25th 2019, 11:26 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

It has always been 183 days.

More here
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...d/index_en.htm
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Old Jun 25th 2019, 11:33 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Originally Posted by spainrico
It has always been 183 days.

More here
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...d/index_en.htm
Thanks for your prompt reply.
I'll air on the side of caution and count my travel days as part of the 183.
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Old Jun 25th 2019, 11:48 am
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Originally Posted by Stillgame
Thanks for your prompt reply.
I'll air on the side of caution and count my travel days as part of the 183.
I may be wrong but I seem to remember seeing somewhere that it is where you are at midnight on the travel day?
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Old Jun 25th 2019, 4:43 pm
  #24  
 
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Be aware that if the UK leaves with a no deal existing Schengen rules may apply. That, for a non eu visitor restricts you to to staying for 90 days in one 180 day period.

Obviously it will depend on how seriously this rule is applied by each country, but a unilateral agreement will not be possible as all Schengen countries are bound by it.
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Old Jun 26th 2019, 8:10 pm
  #25  
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Cool Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Originally Posted by Fred James
Be aware that if the UK leaves with a no deal existing Schengen rules may apply. That, for a non eu visitor restricts you to to staying for 90 days in one 180 day period.

Obviously it will depend on how seriously this rule is applied by each country, but a unilateral agreement will not be possible as all Schengen countries are bound by it.
Fred James, you certainly have knowledge about various subjects.

Exactly how does any country know who is over staying within that country, especially EU passport holder?

On two recent occasions we walked through the Spanish airport without passport check or indeed any other checks.
All the passengers walked through as there was no passport control.

Who knows where anyone is if they do not engage with the system?

Therefore many nationalities can and do “live under the radar”

Last edited by FenMary; Jun 26th 2019 at 8:15 pm.
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Old Jun 26th 2019, 8:38 pm
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

For a start, after a no deal Brexit, British passports will not be considered to be EU passports so they will get checked on entry and more important, on leaving and stamped accordingly just as they do now for non EU visitors.

If you try and check out after more than 90 days since arrival, you may get the passport stamped as an illegal immigrant and find it difficult to get in again.

I'm not making this up as this is what currently happens. Of course it ultimately depends on the attitude that the border officers take. Some countries, apparently, are worse than others, from what I have read, the Dutch are pretty hot on this.

As far as living under the radar this could become much more difficult in the future.
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Old Jun 26th 2019, 8:45 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Question on 183 day rule / UK tax treaty

Originally Posted by Experimenter19
Feels like I've upset some people here with my amoral question, although it's worth highlighting that (so far) I am only a "thought criminal", as I'm still obviously a long way from getting to 183 days

The crux of the issue I have is that I have ties in UK, having lived there for many years (I'm not British, but do have a passport from an EU country) and if I go through the headache of telling HMRC I'm no longer resident, and registering here, then I may end up having to do the reverse fairly soon after.
If I was certain I'd be living here medium to long term, or if I was working, I'd register tomorrow.
The money aspect is not the driver of my hesitancy here - as I said, I'm already paying tax in the UK, and it's likely I'd owe little if anything to Spain after applying the offset (so apologies to the Spanish street cleaners on the forum - whichever option I take, you will likely not be getting any money from me )

Thanks for all the responses, whether helpful or amusing

Experimenter (A Remainer)
He’s not British and has an EU passport.
It looks like the authorities have begun an automated passport control this year as you leave Spain.
So potentially passports are being monitored for perhaps several reasons, including stays of over 90 or 183 days!








Last edited by FenMary; Jun 26th 2019 at 9:04 pm.
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