DLC

The part of the paper which deals with death rates removes high death rate counties with no mask mandate from the dataset but keeps high death rate counties with a mask mandate in the dataset, arguing that this is a control for age. What honestly do you think is going to happen?

In the second part of the paper, animal testing is done by aspirating virus droplets into a hamster's throat through mask fabric. Not exactly sure what this is testing apart from we can infect a hamster with covid if we blast covid droplets into its mouth and nose. How does that compare with the study cited in El Pais which studied airflow in crowded indoor areas?

The study appears to have been a one-man effort and he names the effect after himself. It's being cited in the "fringe" areas of the Internet as some kind of proof which overturns everything that comes before it... but it's only been out a month. There appear to be two gigantic flaws in the methodology but maybe peer review will validate it in time.

DLC

So I'm seeing 3 minutes 25 seconds of UK politicians umming and aaahing through a public health crisis and the death rate of above 170,000 reflects that.

LarryR

And Fauci saying they don't work? Overlooked that one.....I wonder why

More than 150 Comparative Studies and Articles on Mask Ineffectiveness and Harms for you to peruse...........oh go on let me guess...............they are all wrong


https://brownstone.org/articles/more...ess-and-harms/

Mark604

LarryR, you may have a point. It is though poorly backed up.
You give a number of sources for your information. I was interested in what DLC said about the Swiss Policy Research and the link. Never mind the point in that that it is an anonymous construct and not believed to actually be Swiss but there were several other interesting things mentioned.
I then went on to look at the rest of your sources.
Unsurprisingly I found them lacking in credibility and feel it is actually you who have been duped and not me.

You have every right to believe what you do, as do I. I have issues with a number of things you've said and the evidence for them, as shown by the quotes I have previously done in post number 65, sections b), c) and d) which are concerning articles you rely on as gospel when in reality phrases within them such as - "Emergent reports, albeit nascent and anecdotal...." and "We are in uncharted territory...." and "While no cause-effect conclusions could be inferred from this observational analysis..." plus the mistake concerning correlation does not imply causation when clearly the article gave an example indicating that a correlation did show a cause...... etc etc.

This will be the longest post I've ever done but the importance justifies it. I want to show in detail and depth how spurious your scientific sources are. Unfortunately to do this I will have to post a long read, i.e. full comments about the people and organisations you use. I apologise for that and taking up so much room. But, if there is anyone interested to read the following, it may show a fuller picture.
The writings after the name are not mine but others. I will not post any more on this subject. Good luck -
Your sources -

1) Swiss Policy Research -

The Swiss Policy Research site has been criticized for spreading conspiracy theories including claims that QAnon was a psyop of the FBI and theories relating to the COVID-19 pandemic. German public broadcaster Tagesschau calls SPR a propaganda tool.

In 2017 a University of Zurich report on media in Switzerland analyzed "six of the most-discussed 'alternative media'", including SPR, that "resort to conspiracy theories." Daniel Vogler concluded that SPR appears to be a "a pseudoscientific media research project.

Christoph Neuberger, a professor at the Free University of Berlin, stated that while the SPR website attempts to present its message as objective and neutral, it is clearly political, and its content is pseudoscientific.

A graph produced by Swiss Policy Research plotting daily new COVID-19 cases was circulated widely with the claim that "mask mandates may have actually spread COVID-19." When reached by Reuters for comment, SPR said that the social media posts misrepresented their analysis and that they "do not claim or suggest that masks increase cases, nor do we suggest people shouldn't wear masks."

Some pages on the SPR site have previously claimed that, "There is still little to no scientific evidence for the effectiveness of cloth face masks in healthy and asymptomatic individuals. Experts warn that such masks may interfere with normal breathing and may become 'germ carriers' if used repeatedly." - this claim appears to have been removed after it was debunked by Health Feedback

2) The National Pulse - Editor Raheem Kassam

He has been described as far-right and right-wing by several media publications.
Robin Shepherd, who described Kassam as "a danger to British democracy, and the rule of law"
The Australian Labor Party called for Kassam to be banned from entering the country.
Shadow Home Affairs Minister Senator Kristina Keneally said "We should not allow career bigots — a person who spreads hate speech about Muslims, about women, about gay and lesbian people — to enter our country with the express intent of undermining equity and equality."

Kassam has described Islam as a "fascistic and totalitarian ideology", described the Quran as "fundamentally evil", stated that "we are at war with Shari'a" and has supported curbing Muslim immigration to the United Kingdom.
Kassam's political and media strategies have been described as "shock and awful" tactics.
In 2018, Kassam joined the Institut des sciences sociales, économiques et politiques (Institute of Social, Economic and Political Sciences), founded by politicians in the far-right National Front Marion Maréchal-Le Pen and Thibaut Monnier.

Kassam's politics have frequently been described as far-right by mainstream commentators and sources. He has also been described by media and academic sources as a figure in the alt-right.

3) AIER, American Institute for Economic Research -

AIER statements and publications portray the risks of climate change as minor and manageable.
The institution has also funded research on the comparative benefits that sweatshops supplying multinationals bring to the people working in them.
AIER issued a statement in October 2020 called the Great Barrington Declaration that argued for a herd immunity strategy of "focused protection" to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic. It was roundly condemned by many public health experts. Anthony Fauci, the infectious disease expert appointed by the White House, called the declaration "total nonsense" and unscientific.
AIER paid for ads on Facebook promoting its articles against government social distancing measures and mask mandates.

4) Cureus - Under its system, after an article is published, anyone can review it, but the reviews of experts will be given a higher score. Its peer-review process involves asking experts to review a given article in a few days, which results in its peer reviews taking much less time than those of most other journals do.
Leading to hasty and inaccurate reviews and conclusions as not only are the papers submitted quickly looked at but anyone at all can review them, from your local refuse collector to biased individuals with an agenda.

5) R. W Malone MD -

A medical doctor and an infectious-disease researcher—recently suggested that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines might actually make COVID-19 infections worse.
That kind of overheated, spottily sourced conversation is par for the course on shows like Bannon’s, which traffic in a set of claims that sound depressingly familiar: The vaccines cause more harm than experts are letting on; Fauci is a liar and possibly a fascist;
Wherever he appears, Malone is billed as the inventor of mRNA vaccines. It’s in his Twitter bio. “I literally invented mRNA technology when I was 28,”

Karikó replied that she hadn’t told anyone that she is the inventor of mRNA vaccines and that “many many scientists” contributed to their success. “I have never claimed more than discovering a way to make RNA less inflammatory,” she wrote to him. She told me that Malone referred to himself in an email as her “mentor” and “coach,” though she says they’ve met in person only once, in 1997, when he invited her to give a talk. It’s Malone, according to Karikó, who has been overstating his accomplishments. There are “hundreds of scientists who contributed more to mRNA vaccines than he did.”

He does routinely slip into speculation that turns out to be misleading or, as in the segment on Bannon’s show, plainly false.
Malone’s LinkedIn account has twice been suspended for supposedly spreading misinformation.
It’s only in the curious world of fringe media that Malone has found the platform, and the recognition, he’s sought for so long. Malone has finally made his mark, by undermining confidence in the very vaccine he says wouldn’t be possible without his genius.

LarryR

Oh dear oh deary me you should seriously consider your sources and your quotes. I personally don't believe anything until one of the current crop of dubiously funded "FACT CHECKERS" has denied them lol.............then you may realise just how detached from reality your posts are. All your examples of dubious sources slagging off and desperately trying to discredit many of the people in my links could equally slag off and cast aspersions on the likes of the mainstream such as Whitty, Valance and way too many others to list here if the controlling narrative demanded it. But hey its Fringe Media.............whatever that is.............I love the way people who have been fooled just cannot admit even to themselves that they were gullible and will desperately find reason to try and discredit everyone and everything that they know deep down is true and that scares the bejeezus out of them, they just can't live with their stupidity...................Ah its only the Fail online ......ah if its in the Sun.............oh you don't believe whats on YOUTUBE Blah Di Blah .........but they always fail miserably to provide any evidence to back up their posts........Now you keep wearing the Mask if it makes you happy.........but seriously they don't work .. more than enough evidence to sink a ship to back this statement up............Why would Jennie Harries, Whitty, Fauci, Van Tam lie and say they were ineffective??? WHY? Please do enlighten me.

Oh Where did I say YOU have been duped??? But if the cap fits


https://brownstone.org/articles/the-...th-of-masking/

Red Eric

The Brownstone Institute

Mark604

"I love the way people who have been fooled just cannot admit even to themselves that they were gullible and will desperately find reason to try and discredit everyone and everything that they know deep down is true and that scares the bejeezus out of them, they just can't live with their stupidity."
You appear to be guilty of that rather than me.
Why do you appear so?
Because -

The post above speaks for itself. The organisations you use as sources have been commented on by better people than you and me who are closer to the subject, can have personal involvement and have a lot more knowledge.
Any source that has as much criticism generated as those above cannot fail to be laughed at and not taken seriously - apart from someone like yourself for some reason.
You missed where I said - "LarryR, you may have a point. It is though poorly backed up."
I was willing to be open minded and convinced by your arguments and listen to what you've said - something you actually fail to do for anyone who disagrees with you, which is quite typical for someone in your position and with your type of entrenched opinion. Just like flat earthers are not taken seriously, you cannot be when you submit as "proof" any and all of those detailed above.

The only effect you have had on me with that sort of evidence is to move me from being mostly neutral/undecided at the beginning, some pages back, to further away from your belief. You've had the opposite effect you intended. Those sources not only do not convince me because of what has been brought into the open about them, but actually push me now in the opposite direction due to their lack of credibility. If that's what these sorts of agencies are saying about mask wearing, as soon as you mention them, my disbelief grows in you and your opinion when you believe them.
Your sources beggar belief, ergo, you do to.

By the way, when you have just said, "Where did I say YOU have been duped?" you need to look back at post number 74 where you gave the blanket statement of - "...accept that you've been duped."
See? You were talking to DLC but you obviously meant it for everyone whose opinion is at odds with yours.
My advice is, when you are in a hole, stop digging. Your histrionics only make it worse and even less believable. If that is possible.

DLC

Fauci talking about change of mask advice:

Fauci two months ago:

Fauci warns indoor mask mandates might make a comeback if COVID-19 cases spike

Given that the people in charge of this site are the same people who made up The Great Barrington Declaration (signed by "Mr Banana Rama", "Harold Shipman", and "Prof Cominic Dummings" amongst others), yes they are probably all wrong.

Stingychips

Covid restrictions destroy business and push the cost of living up to the point where people can not afford to live. Which in turn, destroys lives. This year is certainly a write off for the tourism industry in Spain which will have a massive nock on effect for the Spanish economy. Hard times ahead for Spain. Probably why so many people are upping sticks and going back home. Only thing left in Spain now is 50 degree heat waves.

Lynn R

We flew back to Málaga from Rome Fiumicino yesterday evening. Fiumicino was very busy (which we expected given the numbers of tourists we'd seen everywhere we visited, the Americans have certainly returned to travelling just as much as the British have). Approaching the security control area there was a large sign with a clock displaying the message "Waiting Time - 2 minutes" - and it proved to be right. There were over 50 flights still to depart that evening and only one showing as cancelled, which was a KLM one to Amsterdam.

LarryR

And guess what, after all that waffle.................Masks still don't work

Mark604

I would say you are right, but then we'd both be wrong.

LarryR

Such a very old and predictable line..............seriously you need a new script writer, the current one is failing you and your fragile ego massively, but most amusing to see


PS : They still don't work.............scientifically impossible..............but you already know that but are not ready to accept the fact.. Wishing you the very best this Winter.

Rosemary

On any discussion forum there is bound to be opposite theories. Members freely discuss the various pieces of information that is available. Obviously each will highlight the information that supports their own theory. That is classed as absolutely normal behaviour.

The behaviour that is not acceptable is when members try to browbeat others into submission. Agree to disagree. Accept that not everyone will agree with you and accept that this is a normal state of affairs.

As this discussion is going nowwhere I am closing it.

Rosemary