PP Wins
 

Well there it is. A big-time win for Mariano Rajoy.

Re: PP Wins
 

Well, I'm just looking forward to the ushering in of an age of milk and honey.

Plus, rember as of this moment, everything that goes wrong or doesn't improve is entirely the fault of the PP.

Re: PP Wins
 

Is that what you think?

Really?

Nobody with a brain would.

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No surprise int hat result.

I don't know a lot about Spanish politics, but have they forgotten who lied to them about the Madrid bombings, blaming them on ETA?

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I think he may have had his sarcastic hat on................. (as in, that's what Zap's lot will be saying even if clearly not true)

Re: PP Wins
 

Remember Mariano Rajoy never promised any miracles!!!:rofl:
"No habrá milagros, no los prometimos" - Mariano Rajoy.

Miguel Arias, the Popular Party's campaign co-ordinator, said Spain was "going to make all the sacrifices".
"We have been living as a very rich country," he told BBC News.
"People are used to a very high level of public services and it takes time to them to acknowledge the realisation that we now are a poor country, that we have lots of debts and in order to pay them back we must reduce public expenditure and then we must recover the confidence of the markets."

Señores y señoras, agárrense que vienen curvas. ;-)

Re: PP Wins
 

Exactly.

I find it hard to understand why anyone would want to pick up the poisoned chalice left behind by the Socialists either in the UK or Spain.

With the best will in the World it's virtually asking the impossible to clean up the mess the two new govts have inherited in our time.

Re: PP Wins
 

so that means all the vanity projects, the road improvements and expansion, the railway improvements, the Metro in Granada,,,,,,,,,
will stay unfinished, a blot on the landscape, something to take the touristo's to look at and wonder about. Whilst traffic backs up due to suspended roadworks. Construction eqpt going rusty in the sun like a load of nodding donkeys in the Texas oilfields.

The beaurocatic nightmare of Spanish civil "service" will get even worse, instead of weeks it will take months for a simple piece of paper to be rubber stamped.

Oh happy future, but its ok, blame it all on the last lot, who left it in such a mess it will take decades to resolve.
:thumbdown:

Re: PP Wins
 

I've always been a believer that we, the public, are at least partially, if not equally responsible for the chaos in politics - in any country.

We vote and then blame whatever party we voted in for all the problems, despite much the problems having existed long before...

We are fickle. We don't like this leader or this party, so we vote another one in. That party never meets our expectations or becomes complacent and corrupt, so we vote another party in.

Not that the socialists did anything positive - Socialist parties everywhere have a long history of corruption and wasteful, not-well-thought-through over-the-top spending - usually to line all the pockets around them. For me it's a wonder anyone voted for them in the first place, but again, the public is short-sighted and fickle, so I guess it's no surprise.

Still, I hold little faith that the PP or any other party is likely to make significant changes while they hold office. Their ideas might seem like they are pointed in the right direction, but humans are humans, and politics is politics, and in today's situation, the problems are much bigger than any party. There is a limit to what they will be able to achieve, even if they actually try.

Corruption in Spain is systemic, not ideological, so you can't change it without changing the system from the ground up, and that is not going to happen without the equivalent of a political nuke event.

But if the Euro goes belly up and Spain goes into fiscal convulsons, that could be the event that changes everything - but not without some very serious pain.

We shall see.

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About the only thing the last shower missed out on, was leaving a note behind saying "Sorry no money left".

Now where have I heard that before. :confused:

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I saw a bigwig from the Banco Central de España being interviewed a couple of days ago, and he was very pessimistic. Asked about the free health service, he said it was totally unsustainable, no way could it carry on as it has been, so expect some big changes there.

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It wasn't me - it was the cat - or the brandy.:o

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La presidenta del Partido Popular de Madrid, Esperanza Aguirre tells us "This government (PSOE) is leaving the coffers empty, there's no money for pensions nor unemployment, and a tremendous deficit that has to be paid" Sound familiar?

Re: PP Wins
 

Post 10 possibly ? :cool:

Re: PP Wins
 

more decades of corruption court cases ?

Re: PP Wins
 

I was in London at the time, dead worried about my family and friends in Madrid. 3 of them saved their lives simply because one was late and missed her train and other 2 didn't go to the University. I still remember a gilipollas basque woman on the same day in a street of London saying that it was impossible that ETA did it as the victims were not "objetivo político-militar" (political-militar targets). I went mad :angry_smile:

I reminded her of all the bombs ETA put on the streets, at Hipercor with normal people doing their shopping, at beaches, killing families in "casas-cuartel" (army and guardia civil houses)... were they objetivos político militares??? I asked her if she considered fine killing a person (civil, militar, policeman or whatever) in the name of ETA simply because they thought different. She went red and left. This is the problem we have when we simply say the truth about ETA: people still believe that they are the victims, not the killers. Of course they could have put those bombs had they had the means and the ability: they have killed innocent civil citizens MANY TIMES before, including men, women, pregnant women, children, babies, elderly people... as well as those poor innocent "targets". Maybe the PP didn't deal with this attack as they should have to, but nobody should think for any second that ETA is not morally capable of killing innocent people.

Why do British people think that Basque people are oppressed? Are you really stupid or simply believe whatever lies they tell you? I lived there in the early 80's, and the count of dead people was terribly easy: they all thought that one can be both Spanish and Basque, whatever civil militar or politician. Or worked in a Bank or had a good business so they were kidnapped to support the "cause", just like the mafia, but they called the ransom "impuesto revolucionario" (revolutionary tax). Every single day a person or more were killed, by bombs or with a bullet on the back of their necks, very brave. All this when the Basque territory already had the competences of education, local government and local police.

ETA compares themselves with the IRA, their "hermanos de armas" (brothers in arms). How can many of you call IRA members terrorists and still support ETA??? ETA members and their followers are cold blood assassins, they have no social or political reason to exist, other than create terror to get money. A Basque nationalist have their nationalist representatives, they can freely vote, they can keep their language and culture... and this for about 40 years ago. Why do they kill innocents?

If you want to see who the really oppressed are, you only have to hang a Spanish flag in the old part of San Sebastián or write "Viva España" on a wall... you will then see, and good luck. The oppressed are not the Basque nacionalists as you stupidly think. Please do go there and publicly support Spain with flags and walks, just as they can do freely with their nationalist flags and ideas. Then, you will be able to give an opinion... if you survive.

And now, AMAIUR was not declared illegal, remember that in Spain there is not real separation of the 3 powers, so the TC followed the instructions of the PSOE. Surely this is what the PSOE has paid for the stupid meaningless declaration of ETA's cease fire right before the elections so they could say that it happened under a PSOE government. Not a word of apology for all the victims (the REAL victims, almost 1,000), handing over the weapons or disbanding. They simply created a theatre show, payed good money to stupid international monkeys and got 7 (SEVEN!) representatives in Madrid for little over 300,000 votes! Etarras in the Congreso.

Have you actually read their report arguing that they are also victims and demanding a pension??? They include the terrorists killed by the bombs they themselves were trying to place (those are deaths I'm actually happy about!), the terrorists who died while hidden in South American paradises, one who drawn in the sea while holidaying on a beach... compare that to the 1,000 people they killed by bombs and bullets!!!

CONGRATULATIONS, MR ZAPATERO, MR RUBALCABA AND ALL YOUR STUPID PSOE STRATEGISTS, YOU HAVE MORALLY PUT THE GUN AGAINST EVERY SPANISH PERSON!

And even though you won't believe me, I do not support the PP! :frown:

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This is extremely interesting and nice to hear it from a Spanish person's point of view.

Can I just say, however, that I have never thought that ETA are not terrorists? As you say, they are equivalent to the IRA. Most Irish people are not terrorists, same as most Basque people are not, but the IRA and ETA can and do perform terrorist acts.

However, on this occasion the terrorists were not of ETA origin, and the Government knew this.

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The Bank of Spain had to step in yesterday and rescue Banco de Valencía, not a very good start for his first day of Presidency. Bet they delayed it until after the election.

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evamar - I obviously can't speak for all British people but I'm fairly sure that the vast majority would probably agree with your views on ETA. Do you think otherwise for some reason?

Re: PP Wins
 

Most British people I know, also, would agree with evamar's views.

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Very true, I find it hard to believe that she should think otherwise.

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Me too.

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Agree, I can't say I have met anyone that has sympathy with ETA, quite the contrary. Even if people did think they were oppressed, I'm sure any sympathies would be swiftly forgotten when you see them happily killing innocent people, including women and children, to attempt to further their cause.

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Thinking about it Evamar from where do you obtain the idea that British people believe that the Basque people are oppressed, offhand I cannot think of anyone with that opinion and I am quite sure that most would ally the morals of ETA with the IRA.

Graham

Re: PP Wins
 

The IRA aren't oppressed so why should the Basques feel they are "brothers in arms" ?

Alot of people I have met feel they are oppressed by the IRA, not allowed to enter "Their Streets", whilst proclaiming their innocence to horrendous slaughter.

I found it weird driving through Belfast with Sinn Fein (IRA political wing) posters on lamp posts as it was election time.
on the way to the airport my taxi driver asked me how I had liked being there, he wanted me to know that life wasnt as bad as it was made out to be on the mainland.
I had just spent 4 nights in a street facing hotel room in the most bombed hotel in Europe.
:eek:

Re: PP Wins
 

The IRA purported to represent the Catholics in Northern Ireland, who felt (feel?) that their territory should unite with the South - that it was 'occupied' by a foreign power. Not so different from that sector of the Basque population that wants independence free from the 'occupying power' of Spain.
If I came from either, I would try and leave as soon as I could.
Mariano Rajoy says he will talk to all the different parties in the new Parliament - except the radical Basque Amaiur party, a kind of Sinn Fein, which got seven seats.

Re: PP Wins
 

Reading the paper today I see a female member of ETA, imprisoned for the death of 23 people has said she's sorry, so ETA have kicked her out of the organisation!:thumbdown:
http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/1229...expulsada/eta/

Re: PP Wins
 

I have the belief that we need to put a barbed wire round Ireland, throw in guns etc and when someone comes to the gate and says "let me out I am the winner" we should shoot them.
Perhaps Spain could do the same with the Basques.

We cannot keep on with all these local areas demanding this and that. Would NI have been any better off if it was part of Eire?
Would the Basques be any better off without the support of the Spanish exchequer.
Would Scotland be any better off without the British exchequer?

IMO the answer is No in the same way as France wouldnt be better off it went back 1000 years to the days when it was made up of dukedoms, nor Italy if they should go back a couple of hundred years to their dukedoms