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The power of prayer

The power of prayer

Old Apr 25th 2012, 2:19 am
  #106  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by cricketman
In the Old Testament, God tells a villager to offer his son to the entering army as a peace offering. You can imagine what they did to him

The morals of human society evolve - sometimes religion is involved sometimes not, but whenever they evolve it is due to humans thinking and deciding for themselves, nothing to do with some mystical figure in the sky

As for the Greeks, they didnt have a perfect society, but they discussed what one should look like - and the motivations behind justice. Again read Plato's Republic if you are interested. But whatever you do, dont asume all good comes from religion, it is a position based on ignorance and misinterpretation

btw, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim God is the same one. These 3 religions differ in which stories about God they decide to listen to i.e. the profits
"the Jewish, Christian and Muslim God is the same one. These 3 religions differ in which stories about God they decide to listen to i.e. the profits"

sorry, but I have to disagree with you there.
If you know your religions, & these 3 will do for starters, then Allah is most definitely NOT the Christian God. Why??:
* you cannot have a personal relationship with Allah
* Allah is ONE; the Christian God is 3 in one
* Allah never came down to earth, nor resurrected himself.
* The Koran teaches: 'you sin, you pay'
* The bible teaches: 'you sin, I pay'
etc. I'll stop there because arguing gets us nowhere much, BUT I dislike seeing generalised misconceptions!
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 2:26 am
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by retired in euzkadi
"the Jewish, Christian and Muslim God is the same one. These 3 religions differ in which stories about God they decide to listen to i.e. the profits"

sorry, but I have to disagree with you there.
If you know your religions, & these 3 will do for starters, then Allah is most definitely NOT the Christian God. Why??:
* you cannot have a personal relationship with Allah
* Allah is ONE; the Christian God is 3 in one
* Allah never came down to earth, nor resurrected himself.
* The Koran teaches: 'you sin, you pay'
* The bible teaches: 'you sin, I pay'
etc. I'll stop there because arguing gets us nowhere much, BUT I dislike seeing generalised misconceptions!
I always thought it was one god and then someones sons (I cant remember whose.......Isaac?? jacob?? cain?? abel???) had a row and it was those two who then separated the religions??? One lot went off to become muslims, calling god allah and the other lot christians And I thought the holy trinity was simply three different names for the one god!??? He is the father and the son and the holy ghost - I vaguely remember that from sunday school.

Jo xxx

Last edited by jojojojojo; Apr 25th 2012 at 2:29 am.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 2:26 am
  #108  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by retired in euzkadi
"the Jewish, Christian and Muslim God is the same one. These 3 religions differ in which stories about God they decide to listen to i.e. the profits"

sorry, but I have to disagree with you there.
If you know your religions, & these 3 will do for starters, then Allah is most definitely NOT the Christian God. Why??:
* you cannot have a personal relationship with Allah
* Allah is ONE; the Christian God is 3 in one
* Allah never came down to earth, nor resurrected himself.
* The Koran teaches: 'you sin, you pay'
* The bible teaches: 'you sin, I pay'
etc. I'll stop there because arguing gets us nowhere much, BUT I dislike seeing generalised misconceptions!
You said it before I did (and much better).
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 2:44 am
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Default Re: The power of prayer

When God the creator made a mirror image, in his look we were all blessed the same,
If it’s true in his mind it must be something similar, alas we must all take some blame,
For wars weren’t about afore man had a shout and crossed angry swords with a neighbour,
Hold out a branch,lend a helping hand, and offer fellow man a huge favour,
Don’t know where it's written but I know someone does, and our lives it would truly enhance,
If we took a step back, let things well alone, and said ‘ GO ON GIVE PEACE A CHANCE’

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Old Apr 25th 2012, 2:49 am
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jojojojojo
I always thought it was one god and then someones sons (I cant remember whose.......Isaac?? jacob?? cain?? abel???) had a row and it was those two who then separated the religions??? One lot went off to become muslims, calling god allah and the other lot christians And I thought the holy trinity was simply three different names for the one god!??? He is the father and the son and the holy ghost - I vaguely remember that from sunday school.

Jo xxx
1 The split with the sons came with Abraham. (Genesis 16) God had promised him & his wife Sarah a child, even tho' they were in their 80's or 90's. they smiled & thought 'yeah, yeah'.
So he had sex with their servant, called Hagar, who duly bore them a child, & whom they called Ishmael. In due course, Sarah did give birth to abraham's child, & he was called Isaac. He was the one God tested Abraham with, to kill!
Ishmael was promised lots of descendants, who are muslims. Interestingly verse 12 states "and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers".
So God didn't exactly condemn him.
2 The trinity is a hell of an impossible concept to understand. Humanly impossible of course. But they are 3 different entities. I sometimes think of it in the same way as water can exist in 3 ways:
water
ice
steam

Hope that helps. Have to go to my Basque class soon, for my sins!! Heck, it's hard!!
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 2:59 am
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by retired in euzkadi
1 The split with the sons came with Abraham. (Genesis 16) God had promised him & his wife Sarah a child, even tho' they were in their 80's or 90's. they smiled & thought 'yeah, yeah'.
So he had sex with their servant, called Hagar, who duly bore them a child, & whom they called Ishmael. In due course, Sarah did give birth to abraham's child, & he was called Isaac. He was the one God tested Abraham with, to kill!
Ishmael was promised lots of descendants, who are muslims. Interestingly verse 12 states "and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers".
So God didn't exactly condemn him.
2 The trinity is a hell of an impossible concept to understand. Humanly impossible of course. But they are 3 different entities. I sometimes think of it in the same way as water can exist in 3 ways:
water
ice
steam

Hope that helps. Have to go to my Basque class soon, for my sins!! Heck, it's hard!!

Yes thats what I learnt! Sadly, christianity doesnt do itself any favours with all the totally impossible stuff and disgraceful behaviour - You have to have a lot of faith (far more than I have or want to have) to believe or approve of that lot!!! But good on you for your tenacity

Jo xxx

Last edited by jojojojojo; Apr 25th 2012 at 3:13 am.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 4:09 am
  #112  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
So everyone reading and contributing to this knows that this discussion is about Islam and Christianity? Its just that as a born Jew and a follower of Taoism I was a bit confused.
Given that it is a British expat site in a Spain forum, I think it fair to assume that comments may be about people of the book, so Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Other religion on the fringe or when specified. For most Brits, Daoism is on the fringe.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 4:15 am
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by retired in euzkadi
2 The trinity is a hell of an impossible concept to understand. Humanly impossible of course. But they are 3 different entities. I sometimes think of it in the same way as water can exist in 3 ways:
water
ice
steam
I find the theory that the Holy Spirit is the feminine, compelling. Given that the feminine has been almost erased from Christianity, it is interesting to try to trace where it once could be found.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 4:43 am
  #114  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
There you go again! Do you actually know anything about other religions? I honestly can't see how you do. Buddhism is a classic example of how wrong you are, Taoism another, the list goes on!
I think Buddhism is like other religions, it is interpreted by people and they view their interpretation as being correct, the resulting conflicts are evidence of how they view themselves as correct and others wrong.

Sohei in Japan, Shaolin in China, the historic persecution of practitioners of Bon by Buddhists. The recent treatment of practitioners of Shugden. Buddhism is no different from any other religion in its potential capacity to create conflict and animosity, and project a sense of superiority.

I know little about Buddhism, but even less about Daoism.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 5:30 am
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Hmmm I thought man was living longer these days, what happened, or were they not human? Theres many more that reached fantastic ages

Genesis 5
From Adam to Noah
1 This is the written account of Adam’s family line.

When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind”[a] when they were created.

3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son
in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.

6 When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the father[b] of Enosh. 7 After he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Altogether, Seth lived a total of 912 years, and then he died.

9 When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan. 10 After he became the father of Kenan, Enosh lived[COLOR="Red"] 815 yearsand had other sons and daughters. 11 Altogether, Enosh lived a total of 905 years, and then he died.

12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of Mahalalel. 13 After he became the father of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Altogether, Kenan lived a total of 910 years, and then he died.

15 When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of Jared. 16 After he became the father of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Altogether, Mahalalel lived a total of 895 years, and then he died.

18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch. 19 After he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Altogether, Jared lived a total of 962 years, and then he died.

21 When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. 22 After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. 24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 After he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27 Altogether, Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died.

28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah[c] and said, “He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed.” 30 After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters. 31 Altogether, Lamech lived a total of 777 years, and then he died.

32 After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Sorry for long post
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 5:41 am
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by anonimouse
Hmmm I thought man was living longer these days, what happened, or were they not human?.......

........Theres many more that reached fantastic ages
Sorry for long post

so where did Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Isaac and Ishmael fit in with that lot??? I'm sorry, but whether you believe/follow religion or not, this all comes across as just stories made up to fill gaps that those of the time didnt understand. So Noah was well over 500yo when he built his ark then?????. I also find alot of the story lines disturbing and barbaric. Christianity should scrap the old testament and just start with the nativity - altho there are some barbaric bits in that too??!!

Jo xxx

Last edited by jojojojojo; Apr 25th 2012 at 5:45 am.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 6:14 am
  #117  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Jayzuzz! I don't care which religion it is they are all a load of clap-trap.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 6:24 am
  #118  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Jayzuzz! I don't care which religion it is they are all a load of clap-trap.
Frightening clap-trap!! Should be certificate 18!

Jo xxx
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 6:28 am
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jojojojojo
so where did Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Isaac and Ishmael fit in with that lot??? I'm sorry, but whether you believe/follow religion or not, this all comes across as just stories made up to fill gaps that those of the time didnt understand. So Noah was well over 500yo when he built his ark then?????. I also find alot of the story lines disturbing and barbaric. Christianity should scrap the old testament and just start with the nativity - altho there are some barbaric bits in that too??!!

Jo xxx
Noah became a parent at 500 years of age and the floods came in his 600th year, he died at the age of 950 I Think.

They fit in I think as they are somewhere not far down the line from Adam who lived to 930.

Adam was created/cloned by someone known as a God in his own likeness wasn't he?

Far fetched as the ages sound, lot's believe it any road

Last edited by anonimouse; Apr 25th 2012 at 8:18 am.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 6:31 am
  #120  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by anonimouse
Noah became a parent at 500 years of age and the floods came in his 600th he died at the age of 950 I Think.
They fit in I think as they are somewhere not far down the line from Adam who probably lived as long.
Adam was created/cloned by someone known as a God in his own likeness wasn't he?
Far fetched as it sounds, lots believe it any road
I bet that you do not even know that the world used to spin faster back then, it has been slowing down ever since. Our children's children will be old when they are 10.
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