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The power of prayer

The power of prayer

Old Apr 24th 2012, 2:03 pm
  #91  
 
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Default Re: The power of prayer

I rather fancy being a sufi.

Sometimes.

The dancing is good anyway.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 2:14 pm
  #92  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
I rather fancy being a sufi.

Sometimes.

The dancing is good anyway.
I do not think all Sufis are mystical dervishes, I think Gordon lost his head to a Sufi army. But the whirling bit looks like fun.

Last edited by kimilseung; Apr 24th 2012 at 2:17 pm.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 2:21 pm
  #93  
 
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by kimilseung
I do not think all Sufis are mystical dervishes, I think Gordon lost his head to a Sufi army. But the whirling bit looks like fun.
There are also some people I could fancy decapitating.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 2:24 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
There are also some people I could fancy decapitating.
Mmmm.......righteous retribution and dance.......I think you might be on to a winner there.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 7:20 pm
  #95  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

I remember attending a confirmation ceremony for a 14-year old cousin in an evangelical Church. For once I listened carefully to the presiding minister's words.

We were all in a club, an exclusive club for members only. Outsiders were not allowed, they had not partaken in the ceremonies that we had, to prove our membership. This was the final act of confirmation for my cousin to join our exclusive club.

I was both comforted by being among fellow Christians, and annoyed that outsiders had no place in our world.

My cousin obviously didn't listen, because a few months later he was arrested at an anarchist rally, with a red Mohican haircut and all dressed in black.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 7:43 pm
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by HBG
I remember attending a confirmation ceremony for a 14-year old cousin in an evangelical Church. For once I listened carefully to the presiding minister's words.

We were all in a club, an exclusive club for members only. Outsiders were not allowed, they had not partaken in the ceremonies that we had, to prove our membership. This was the final act of confirmation for my cousin to join our exclusive club.

I was both comforted by being among fellow Christians, and annoyed that outsiders had no place in our world.

My cousin obviously didn't listen, because a few months later he was arrested at an anarchist rally, with a red Mohican haircut and all dressed in black.

We have neither infant baptism nor confirmation in our church as we believe that Baptism is for believers, those who have made up their own mind. When someone is baptised (usually by full immersion), it is a symbolic act reflecting the decision they have made.

'Outsiders' are always welcome in our church, we have new people coming every week. No way is it an exclusive club, Christianity is open to all, and people who are searching, or just interested, or passing through, are always made welcome.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 7:47 pm
  #97  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jojojojojo
so your god can talk ok but not write??? Sorry, you're views are wasted on me. I respect that you believe and it gives you solace. I'm not in need of this kinda stuff - too much controversy, the bible is too contradictory, religion is too full of nonsense rituals and mumbo jumbo and I cant see the point or need - sorry, no malice intended, we're all different afterall. Me and my God arent into all that stuff



Jo xxx
No problem. I've found over the years that "arguing or discussing" religion can finish up hurting people, so I ought not to be tempted by it!
Probably best done in the quietness of one's home or work.
I'll say no more.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 8:03 pm
  #98  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by retired in euzkadi
No problem. I've found over the years that "arguing or discussing" religion can finish up hurting people, so I ought not to be tempted by it!
Probably best done in the quietness of one's home or work.
I'll say no more.
Good idea. Neither will I. If people want to know more about Christianity, they know who to ask!

Last edited by scampicat; Apr 24th 2012 at 8:40 pm.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 8:05 pm
  #99  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by retired in euzkadi
No problem. I've found over the years that "arguing or discussing" religion can finish up hurting people, so I ought not to be tempted by it!
Probably best done in the quietness of one's home or work.
I'll say no more.
True, they say you should never discuss religion or politics!

Jo xxx
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 8:21 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by cricketman
Religion doesnt interest me personally. But I am interested on how infringes on my personal freedoms and those of my family e.g. try and find a nursery that doesnt tell the 2 year olds to pray before lunch. Tough!

I still remember my brother singing a song about Jesus when he was 5 on the way home from school. He had never even encountered religion bfore that. It is simply brainwashing

And I am pretty sure that many people had come to the conclusion that "thou shall not kill" many years before some person wrote it in a manuscript that would become the Bible. Again, read the Greek classics. You'll find plenty of stuff that are now laws of the UK and Spain, nothing to do with religion! It was the first democracy after all and much of European society as we know it can be traced back to that age
You mean the Greece that gave us child prostitution? Where adult men were expected to take young boys as sex slaves? Where Spartans would hurl sickly children and undesirables down dry wells? Where murders were settled by family members who would go and find the murderer, often sparking years of blood feuds? Right, got ya!

Last edited by rugbymatt; Apr 24th 2012 at 8:30 pm.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 8:30 pm
  #101  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jojojojojo
Therein lies the problem. Maybe there are two Gods or maybe religion is nothing to do with god atall, but man using a god to justify his greed and need to control (both muslims and christians)????? This was why I decided religion is a crock of nonsense. All religions believe they're right and the others are wrong??!

Jo xx
There you go again! Do you actually know anything about other religions? I honestly can't see how you do. Buddhism is a classic example of how wrong you are, Taoism another, the list goes on!




This is, yet again, my issue with the whole "we hate religion" brigade, you are all lumping every religion into one huge cauldron and trying to boil it into a mess of hatred, if you all hate religion then just don't get involved, don't try and push your hatred onto people who may well find solace, comfort, strength and stability through their faith. Sometimes I wonder if its not a bit of the green eyed monster at work.
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Old Apr 24th 2012, 8:36 pm
  #102  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by kimilseung
It might be ethnocentric, but that is what most people do mean when discussing religion, it is all about people of the book. I am not sure why you are viewing it as ignorance. If I say there is nothing on any TV channels this evening, I am not including every channel in the world, just the ones I get reception for.
So everyone reading and contributing to this knows that this discussion is about Islam and Christianity? Its just that as a born Jew and a follower of Taoism I was a bit confused.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 1:07 am
  #103  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
There you go again! Do you actually know anything about other religions? I honestly can't see how you do. Buddhism is a classic example of how wrong you are, Taoism another, the list goes on!




This is, yet again, my issue with the whole "we hate religion" brigade, you are all lumping every religion into one huge cauldron and trying to boil it into a mess of hatred, if you all hate religion then just don't get involved, don't try and push your hatred onto people who may well find solace, comfort, strength and stability through their faith. Sometimes I wonder if its not a bit of the green eyed monster at work.
The definition of religion according to the dictionary
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.


I'm not really into any of the above. I dont hate it, I just dont believe in most of it, nor do I get comfort in the origins or rituals

Jo xxx

Last edited by jojojojojo; Apr 25th 2012 at 1:16 am.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 1:33 am
  #104  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
You mean the Greece that gave us child prostitution? Where adult men were expected to take young boys as sex slaves? Where Spartans would hurl sickly children and undesirables down dry wells? Where murders were settled by family members who would go and find the murderer, often sparking years of blood feuds? Right, got ya!
In the Old Testament, God tells a villager to offer his son to the entering army as a peace offering. You can imagine what they did to him

The morals of human society evolve - sometimes religion is involved sometimes not, but whenever they evolve it is due to humans thinking and deciding for themselves, nothing to do with some mystical figure in the sky

As for the Greeks, they didnt have a perfect society, but they discussed what one should look like - and the motivations behind justice. Again read Plato's Republic if you are interested. But whatever you do, dont asume all good comes from religion, it is a position based on ignorance and misinterpretation

btw, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim God is the same one. These 3 religions differ in which stories about God they decide to listen to i.e. the profits
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 1:40 am
  #105  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jojojojojo
Therein lies the problem. Maybe there are two Gods or maybe religion is nothing to do with god atall, but man using a god to justify his greed and need to control (both muslims and christians)????? This was why I decided religion is a crock of nonsense. All religions believe they're right and the others are wrong??!

Jo xx
Well I don't know about all religions but if you take three big ones (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) they certainly have conflicting beliefs on some aspects of their faith and therefore each must obviously think that the others are wrong.

That's probably OK most of the time, they probably just let each other get on with their particular delusions, but at times it can cause problems.

Even within a religion different sects have different beliefs which can cause strained relations at times - Catholics v Protestants maybe?
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