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The power of prayer

The power of prayer

Old Apr 23rd 2012, 6:24 am
  #31  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Yup, but that's logical thinking. religion is all about death and destruction contradictions to forgiveness.

I really wish I did believe in some super power (and I don't mean the EU) It must be very comforting to have total belief.

That is Islam. Christianity is ALL about forgiveness.

As to why it couldn't all just be 'nice', God did not create unhappiness, that is a human creation, from way back in that Garden.
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 7:15 am
  #32  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by scampicat
That is Islam. Christianity is ALL about forgiveness.

.
Mmm, maybe you should read the Old Testiment!

The New Testiment is a bit more forgiving especially the Catholic interpretation of it, but the Old Testiment is all about death and destruction and the all mightly unquestionable power of the ALL MIGHTY

According to Catholics all Church of England people will be going to hell anyway, so dont think you'll get off lightly

According to American evangelicals the decision has already been made before you've been born and there is nothing you can do in this life to prevent your destiny of either heaven or hell

Of course, all of it is rubbish. I have a date with the worms when I die!
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 7:24 am
  #33  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by scampicat
That is Islam. Christianity is ALL about forgiveness.

As to why it couldn't all just be 'nice', God did not create unhappiness, that is a human creation, from way back in that Garden.
Sorry scampi - I really don't want to argue with you - you seem like a really nice person, but how do you know what God created and what humans created?
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 7:37 am
  #34  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

I have tried REALLY hard to stay away from this thread... its the sort of thread that Bil and I used to clash horns in....

Firstly, I have to say, it irritates the crap out of me when people put all religions into the same basket, all religions are not the same and religion has not brought death and destruction in all its guises, there are a few, enough, that do not advocate or encourage violence and hatred and many do not allow the "interpretation" issues that exist mainly in Christianity and Islam.

Secondly.. who cares? Seriously, who cares? If the footballer prayed to god, slit the throat of a chicken or drew a bloody pentagram who cares? It worked for him in his mind, it helped HIM get through, the doctors themselves said they simply could not understand why and how he recovered let alone collapsed and who are we to say his own faith didn't help him, didn't provide the missing 2% he needed to pull through?

Sometimes the thing missing from non spiritual people is tolerance.
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 7:54 am
  #35  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Secondly.. who cares? Seriously, who cares? If the footballer prayed to god, slit the throat of a chicken or drew a bloody pentagram who cares? It worked for him in his mind, it helped HIM get through, the doctors themselves said they simply could not understand why and how he recovered let alone collapsed and who are we to say his own faith didn't help him, didn't provide the missing 2% he needed to pull through?

Sometimes the thing missing from non spiritual people is tolerance.
Because it's better to understand properly why things happen than to believe in slit chickens or pentagrams. The guy lived (thankfully) because he was attended by skilled people who knew what they were doing not because of spirits.

Last edited by jimenato; Apr 23rd 2012 at 7:57 am.
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 8:24 am
  #36  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jimenato
Sorry scampi - I really don't want to argue with you - you seem like a really nice person, but how do you know what God created and what humans created?
Well.... I have been a Christian for over thirty years, I would like to think I have learned a little bit about it!
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 8:26 am
  #37  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jimenato
Because it's better to understand properly why things happen than to believe in slit chickens or pentagrams. The guy lived (thankfully) because he was attended by skilled people who knew what they were doing not because of spirits.
In Your Opinion....there are many things we don't know about why things work. How do you know his prayers did not help him?
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 8:29 am
  #38  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by scampicat
Well.... I have been a Christian for over thirty years, I would like to think I have learned a little bit about it!
I have been an atheist for 50 years so maybe I know more than you?
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 8:32 am
  #39  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by scampicat
In Your Opinion....there are many things we don't know about why things work. How do you know his prayers did not help him?
Because prayers don't always help - people can die in spite of being prayed over.

In fact BECAUSE of being prayed over. See my previous 'what's the harm' post.

Incidentally the power of prayer is easy to test - it's not a matter of opinion it is a mater of fact.

Last edited by jimenato; Apr 23rd 2012 at 8:35 am.
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 8:33 am
  #40  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

I try not get into heavy discussions about religion but I have a friend who is a dyslexic agnostic, he does not believe in Dog.
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 8:44 am
  #41  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jimenato
Because prayers don't always help - people can die in spite of being prayed over.

In fact BECAUSE of being prayed over. See my previous 'what's the harm' post.

Incidentally the power of prayer is easy to test - it's not a matter of opinion it is a mater of fact.
But how do you know they don't sometimes help?

How do you test it?
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 8:49 am
  #42  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by jimenato
I have been an atheist for 50 years so maybe I know more than you?
I was an atheist for thirty years too, before I was a Christian. I understand both mindsets.

When I became a Christian, I actually saw the world differently. This is what 'repentance' actually means, from the Greek 'metanoia'. to think differently, to change your mind. I saw everything in a new light.

(The word in the New Testament usually translated “repent” is the Greek word “metanoeo,” and the word translated “repentance” is “metanoia.” Both of these Greek words have the same basic meaning: “to change your mind; reconsider; or, to think differently.”)
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 6:57 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by scampicat
This is what 'repentance' actually means, from the Greek 'metanoia'. to think differently, to change your mind. I saw everything in a new light.

(The word in the New Testament usually translated “repent” is the Greek word “metanoeo,” and the word translated “repentance” is “metanoia.” Both of these Greek words have the same basic meaning: “to change your mind; reconsider; or, to think differently.”)
So what?

A classic trait of religious people. Ramble on and on about something and get lost in the detail

I'm glad religion worked for you (well, actually I dont care and it actually makes me think that you are a little bit dumb)
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 7:10 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by cricketman
So what?

A classic trait of religious people. Ramble on and on about something and get lost in the detail

I'm glad religion worked for you (well, actually I dont care and it actually makes me think that you are a little bit dumb)
Oh here we go. I tell people I am a believer and I have suddenly lost my brains.

What I was trying to say to you was that I now see the world differently to when I was an atheist. It's not a matter of 'book learning' or 'head knowledge', it's all to do with perception. As though the grass that I thought was one colour is really another. I changed my mind inasmuch I came to realise that things were not as I always thought they were.

I'm sorry you don't understand what I was saying, probably that is my inability to put it in the right language. I can only quote the blind man, healed by Jesus, in the Bible, who said 'I only know that I was blind and now I can see'.

Well that's how it is for me.
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Old Apr 23rd 2012, 7:15 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: The power of prayer

Originally Posted by cricketman
Mmm, maybe you should read the Old Testiment!

The New Testiment is a bit more forgiving especially the Catholic interpretation of it, but the Old Testiment is all about death and destruction and the all mightly unquestionable power of the ALL MIGHTY

According to Catholics all Church of England people will be going to hell anyway, so dont think you'll get off lightly

According to American evangelicals the decision has already been made before you've been born and there is nothing you can do in this life to prevent your destiny of either heaven or hell

Of course, all of it is rubbish. I have a date with the worms when I die!
I'm neither Catholic nor C of E.
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