Please help with a purchase :)
 

Hello. We're currently buying our first home in Spain. We have finally agreed on a price. We have property selling in the UK (due to complete within the next 10 days).

The agents are really pushing for a deposit of 10,000 euros to secure it although we have said when we pay the deposit we will be at the stage of completing in Spain anyway. In other words we will pay the deposit within a few weeks once a few things are ironed out, we'll then pay the balance around the same time. We understand that we could lose out if someone else comes in but we won't pay anything until we know the property is in order.

The purchase is a finca with land. The owner has built a small detached bungalow and pool on the land without permission. The agents says the fines would be dealt with before any purchase but they're now saying that the seller has agreed to knock 5,000 euros off to cover any future fines. According to the agent the fines couldn't exceed this because the fine is based on the area of land effected. Does this sound right? They say if you get passed 4 years you're ok anyway if you can prove when it was built.

But do we alert the local authority and say we'd prefer to have this dealt with pre-sale? The fee we have agreed includes the deduction of the 5,000 euros.

We're not doing anything until we have a solicitor over here. The agents have put forward suggested names but obviously they say we can pick whoever we like and they will understand this. Does anyone know of any English speaking reliable proven lawyers in the Sax, Alicante area?

What advice would you give us at this stage please? We haven't seen any paperwork yet because we said we had to sell at home first. We're now at the stage where we need to start checking out the property and make sure that we're doing all the right things. Obviously we need a solicitor but I value the contributions on these forums for people who have done it all.

We want to get things moving so we're currently in the area ready to press ahead finding legal help and doing all the necessary groundwork.

I really appreciate any help that you can provide.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

sorry dont know any solicitors but sounds a bit dodgy to me - I wouldnt hand over any cash just yet until an independent solicitor (not one the agent takes you to) has checked over the escritura and you know its 100% legit

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Hi Nacnud,

The only advice that I can give you is to proceed with caution and find a reliable solicitor that has been recommended independently. If I were you, I would definitely not put in a deposit until I knew that all paper work is in order. You can request copies of the deeds so that the necessary checks can be done. This is normal practice and deposits need not change hands for them to give you these copies. Once the checks have been done and you have positive feedback from your independently chosen solicitor and ONLY THEN should you hand over any money.

We work with a great solicitor but I'm afraid he is a bit far from you. His offices are in Teulada and he is not the cheapest, but he is impeccable and knows what he is talking about.

Wishing you all the best,
Martha

P.S. If they insisit, tell them that the usual deposit (to take a property off the market) is €3,000 with a contract that states that this deposit is refundable if checks prove to be dodgy.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

As Spain says, sounds very dodgy, pay nothing.
Without paperwork you dont even know if its his to sell and they might only catch you for the deposit but its a lot of money to loose to learn a lesson.
Hire another lawyer, too many people have been caught like this.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Yes we'll do that. In fairness the agents mentioned the exact score from the start with regards the permissions but we won't hand over anything until we know we're safe with any fines etc and that the seller is legit.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Thanks for the reply. We don't have a lawyer yet, we're trying to find one that someone can put forward to us :)

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Sorry but have to agree with Spain and Martha. Please please do not hand over any money until everything has been checked. I speak from bitter experience (not on a house purchase though)!

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Thankyou very much. Not too concerned about the cost of the lawyer as we want to ensure we're looked after :)

Appreciate the input - thanks again.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

If you are worried about losing the property you could just do what was suggested in one of the posts above - pay the deposit, but make sure that the reservation contract is weighted in your favour. IE, that when you get to the notary's office the property has to be completely free of all debts and totally legal.

Most importantly (and this is completely standard) make sure that the contract states that if the seller does not comply with any of your stipulations then the deposit must be returned to you DOUBLED. Therefore, if the owner is knowingly selling you a total lemon, he will refuse to take your deposit cos he would be the loser in the long run.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

yes thats a good idea:thumbup:

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Cheers. What is the seller likely to want in the contract or what is normal for us to agree? Where the deposit go? What stops a seller running with that money?

Obviously the solicitor will help here but it's good to be backed up first. Have read loads of stuff but the support on here is great.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

If I were you I wouldn´t allow the seller to prepare the contract. I would do it yourself (via a solicitor) so that you get all the clauses that you want and obviously they will be much more beneficial to you than the seller.;)

Deposit can either go directly to the seller or (perhaps better) be held in a separate account. What stops the seller doing a runner? well you know where he lives for one!, but the reservation contract is legally binding. You can take him to court if he fails to comply with any of the conditions.


What should go in the contract? I would say something like the following:

That the property will be sold to you completely free of debts.
If there is already a mortgage on the property, the vendor will have to cancel this mortgage at his own cost.
Since you will be doing the contract, why not try the following: the contract is subject to you being approved for a mortgage by the bank of your choice.
And of course that when you appear before the notary the house will be totally legal with all its planning permissions.

If the vendor has any doubts about the house´s ability to be "legalised" he will not sign this contract.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

The seller is selling an illegal build, which in theory can be overcome by an agreement between the parties. Meanwhile the local authorities are busily looking to knock down illegal builds, never mind the possible fine.

If it were me I would ask the simple question- their are significant risks inherent in a deal like this- do I need the worry and potential legal hassle?

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

I would walk away and look for something legal.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Sometimes easier said than done. If I have understood the OPs situation correctly they will shortly be homeless in the UK, and would like their property in Spain asap, presumably to avoid time in rented? And looking for a property in Spain whilst you are in the UK is not easy! Fincas in particular take a lot of time to look for - so if they have found one that they like it is at least worth bottoming out if it can be legalised or not before abandoning it and returning to square one.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

If it has been built illegally I doupt it will have a escritura,I would not hand any money over,neither would I trust the estate agent,I would get a independent solicitor..........in fact Im proberley to cautious Id walk away and find something else.Better safe than sorry,you wouldnt buy a property here without deeds.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

If I were in this situation,I would invest the money from the sale of the house in a account where it would earn interest ,and then I would rent,finca,s may be hard to come by,but to buy one that has even got the slightest chance that it could be demolished is mad :eek:I would find out first if it can be legalised,but this is going to cost and could turn out to be a lenthy proccess,from what Iv seen there are lots of rentals.Its better to be safe than sorry and lose your money...........sorry but thats my opinion :blink:

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Yes I agree, I wouldn´t sign at the Notary for a finca that isn´t legal. But I would however insist that the seller takes it upon himself to legalise the finca (at his expense of course) so that by the time you get to the Notary everything is in order. And if it isn´t, don´t proceed and claim your deposit back from the seller (doubled of course, because you have stipulated this in the reservation contract).

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

The property has recently been vacated. It's in good condition inside and you can see it's been lived in. It's the detached bungalow adjacent that doesn't have planning, plus a pool. We've never met the seller. The agents live a few hundred yards away in a similar property and are known in the village.

They've been upfront about the planning but even so, we'd prefer to be 100% safe.

How long should it take for it to be legalised if the local council are made aware of the non permissions?

Thanks everyone.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

I think that is a "how long is a piece of string" question. I´d get onto the seller asap so that he can start the process.

I think I misunderstood your original post - so you are buying two properties on the same piece of land, one of which is fully legal but the other isn´t. Is that correct?

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Thanks Keith. Yes, there is one main property but the owner built a small bunglalow next door and a pool. This is on a large plot of land.

We really do want this purchase but even so, we won't part with cash until we know we're safe.

We're trying to find a solicitor this week but we were hoping someone may know one that could helps us :)

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Can´t help with the solicitor thing...but if the main property is totally legal that is reassuring (I assumed there was only one property on the site which was illegally built). So the plot must be urbanisable at least. You just need to find out if this bungalow can be legalised - if not I guess it will either be registered on the deeds as a farm building, or simply not there at all. If it can´t be legalised (or is officially a shed) ask the seller to adjust the price of the main property accordingly.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

As soon as I get some more info I will report back :)

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Hi all! Please excuse me butting in on this thread. :blink:I can't advise as haven't yet bought property in Spain. I noticed that there was a large plot of land but don't know the size. I seem to remember reading somewhere that if there is a legal property on a plot of land, and an illegal build is then added to the plot, that there is still a requirement that permission for the illegal build could only be post granted if the plot of land is sufficiently large, as there can only be one dwelling for so many thousand metres square in relation to rural land. If there is a sizable plot it seems likely it may be classed as rural. I don't wish to put the damper on but this thought is something which has just occurred to me and is worrying me now. I would certainly however, get an independent solicitor to confirm the property's legality before parting with hard earned cash. Is it possible to make a solicitor liable for any loss? :blink: Could a clause be added? If so, at least you know they are sure to do their job properly. Anyway, good luck and keep us posted, as we may be in a similar situation ourselves in the future! Who knows! :blink:

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Word of warning, we made an offer on a property over 5 months ago and the property is still not registered and therefore we are unable to proceed with the purchase as yet

Our Lawyer sent us a contract - in Spanish for us to sign and pay the 10% deposit. Even with my lack of the Spanish language I could read that the house measured 18 sq metres !Fortunately,we ignored our Lawyers advice and did not pay the 10% deposit. Take care and do not let your heart rule your head - I know I have been there several times in our endeavor to purchase a Spanish property

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

hi, i live in salinas, (next door to sax)
i dont know of a solicitor but if i can help in anyway i will. Maybe u could tell me whereabouts the finca is and i can make some enquiries! also if ur stuck for somewhere to stay short term while it gets sorted or while u look for somewhere to rent im happy to put u up. got 3 bedrooms going spare at the moment.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

This is the type of purchase which you see on TV....buying an illegal build
However nice, however cheap do not do it
The fact that first they have asked for 10.000 € deposit [when the normal reservation fee is 3000 €] and wanted to reduce the price to cover the lack of a licence clearly indicates that it may be very suspect
You would not buy a home in UK without planning permission so the same applies in Spain
The old days in Spain have gone with EU and the Madrid bombs......play by the rules

This is however is often the situation when buying Finca's
You may well find out with a good lawyer that everything can be sorted in due course and if so enjoy your Finca
I do know re sales of Finca's where all the paper work,water rights,land grab prospects have been sorted out but not easy to find and generally not cheap

If you are looking to live in a Spanish environment then you do not need to buy a Finca.....there are new builds/re sales outside Spanish Market Towns with all permits which you can buy

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

I wouldn't pay any deposit if it goes directly to the seller. It's just crazy. The seller will spend the deposit and if you have to claim it back (never mind even thinking about trying to claim double back) you will have to sue the seller and try to get your money back through the Spanish legal system. At your cost. And how many years will that take? This "double your money back" clause that they put in isn't worth the paper it's written on.

And another thing - don't for a minute think you will be able to make any claim against your lawyer, or the seller's lawyer. Lawyers in Spain operate under a code of conduct whereby they refuse to sue another lawyer. I've been told this by a lawyer.

Buying a finca even with all the paperwork in order is still a gamble. It just depends how much you want the finca. Is it worth the hassle? Ours was (and still is worth the hassle), and after four years we're still trying to finalise the paperwork.

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Apologies for not reading the entire thread, but I get the gist of it (sorry im too busy for my own good right now).

I just wanted to say, I dont know which area you are dealing with but I found an incredibly amazing solicitor who leaves no stone unturned and wont let you sign or pay anything until its all legally sorted. I cannot recommend highly enough. YOu will have to PM me if you want the details.

good luck.

mrs teapot

Re: Please help with a purchase :)
 

Sounds like you are buying something dodgy from the word go. Sounds a nightmare, never buy anything illegal. It is very crazy.